British Lager - A Rant

[DanST]

The butter scotch taste is diacytyl. Sorry I don't quite understand, is it still in the FV? If it is just leave it there, perhaps rouse the yeast. The yeast should clean itself up. If you bottled your beer, give them a shake to resuspend the yeast and stick them somewhere warm if you can, again the yeast should reabsorb the diacytl

Have you tried this? Does it work? I've got a pale kit brew that has got a really strong diacytyl taste that really doesn't suit the style (I'm going ag now anyway but brew years resolution, stop using crappy yeast).

Going to try it with a couple of bottles regardless, won't make 'em worse.

 

[MyQul]

Have you tried this? Does it work? I've got a pale kit brew that has got a really strong diacytyl taste that really doesn't suit the style (I'm going ag now anyway but brew years resolution, stop using crappy yeast).

Going to try it with a couple of bottles regardless, won't make 'em worse.

I don't know tbh but it should in theory. I have a bitter that is diacytl-y. It definatley didn't get to hot because at the time of fermentation it was only 16C/17C in my kitchen where I brewed it. What I think happened was that the yeast I used (WY1469) is quite vigourous so the exothermic reaction created enough heat to ferment it out properly to target FG but when it stopped fermenting it dropped out of suspension due to a cold kitchen (plus this is quite a floccuant yeast any way) as well as the fact the krausen never dropped so between the two there wasn't enough yeast to clean up the diacytl produce which would normally happen.
So I 've given the bottles a good shake to resuspend all the yeast at the bottom of the bottles (unfortunatley I have nowhere warm to put them). Ale yeast can't do much very quickly at the bottom of bottles so resuspending it should hopefully get it to reabsorb the diacytyl faster. I think it should do it anyway given enough time but I want it to happen quickly

 

[DanST]

Well won't hurt. Agree with your theory so worth a try. This was a muntons kit so I think it's due to under pitching, don't think it would have got too warm.

I've had a slight bit of it in a bitter before and didn't mind it. Tasted the same in a pint of doom bar the other day actually, but it just doesn't work in a pale ale.

 

[DanST]

I found it didn't condition out with the bottles left in the cold for 3-6 months without anything done to them.

 

[Tony1951]

WLP002/WY1968 is the fullers strain. You can culture it up from a bottle of 1845 and as I mentioned elswhere on the forum if you use your own wort you wont have to pay for DME

The butter scotch taste is diacytyl. Sorry I don't quite understand, is it still in the FV? If it is just leave it there, perhaps rouse the yeast. The yeast should clean itself up. If you bottled your beer, give them a shake to resuspend the yeast and stick them somewhere warm if you can, again the yeast should reabsorb the diacytl

It is still in teh FV and has about another five days to go to really finish. I measured teh SG about three days ago - maybe two and it was 1011, but I always leave the brew about a fortnight in the FV. It is at about 21C to 22C at the moment. I could move it a bit so it cools to about 18 if that would be better. Also, if need be, I can delay the bottling a bit.

I usually ferment at about 20C and not more than 22. . This was at 22 in the early part of the ferment in an environment that was at 17 - 18C. The yeast warms it up above ambient temperature obviously. Then it dropped off as the fermentation slowed right down after about a week and sat at 18C for a couple of days and I moved it so it was two to four degrees warmer.

I'm not sure why the diacytl arrived. Never had it before in a good many brews. It;s not horrible at all, just not what usually happens.

I'm wondering of the brew being pretty strong may have caused it. The original gravity was 1067 and it is now 7.5%. Could this have knocked off the yeast a bit because of intolerance to the alcohol?

 

[MrDasherD]

I definitely think that British versions of continental lagers are simply bland, inferior and just cats pi$$ ... had worked this out long before I left my teens and the occasional glass in recent years hasn't changed my mind!

However, at least 2 west country brewers have created their own lagers (St Austell have Korev and Otter brew Tarka). Undoubtedly other small breweries will have done the same, no experience of them myself so has anyone any comments about these or any of the other newer lagers?

 

[MickDundee]

I definitely think that British versions of continental lagers are simply bland, inferior and just cats pi$$ ... had worked this out long before I left my teens and the occasional glass in recent years hasn't changed my mind!

However, at least 2 west country brewers have created their own lagers (St Austell have Korev and Otter brew Tarka). Undoubtedly other small breweries will have done the same, no experience of them myself so has anyone any comments about these lagers?

Not the 2 breweries (or the area) you mention but Harvieston Schiehallion and Innis & Gunn Craft Lager are both lovely!

 

[MrDasherD]

Not the 2 breweries (or the area) you mention but Harvieston Schiehallion and Innis & Gunn Craft Lager are both lovely!

Thanks for that! Yes I did intend that to extend to any of the 'new' British lagers (and have edited accordingly!)

 

[Notlaw]

I definitely think that British versions of continental lagers are simply bland, inferior and just cats pi$$ ... had worked this out long before I left my teens and the occasional glass in recent years hasn't changed my mind!

However, at least 2 west country brewers have created their own lagers (St Austell have Korev and Otter brew Tarka). Undoubtedly other small breweries will have done the same, no experience of them myself so has anyone any comments about these or any of the other newer lagers?

Not the 2 breweries (or the area) you mention but Harvieston Schiehallion and Innis & Gunn Craft Lager are both lovely!

Interested to see what people list here, as I always swerve British lagers. I just don't think there are any decent ones (that I have tried), so I always go for German or Czech lagers.

 

[MyQul]

It is still in teh FV and has about another five days to go to really finish. I measured teh SG about three days ago - maybe two and it was 1011, but I always leave the brew about a fortnight in the FV. It is at about 21C to 22C at the moment. I could move it a bit so it cools to about 18 if that would be better. Also, if need be, I can delay the bottling a bit.

I usually ferment at about 20C and not more than 22. . This was at 22 in the early part of the ferment in an environment that was at 17 - 18C. The yeast warms it up above ambient temperature obviously. Then it dropped off as the fermentation slowed right down after about a week and sat at 18C for a couple of days and I moved it so it was two to four degrees warmer.

I'm not sure why the diacytl arrived. Never had it before in a good many brews. It;s not horrible at all, just not what usually happens.

I'm wondering of the brew being pretty strong may have caused it. The original gravity was 1067 and it is now 7.5%. Could this have knocked off the yeast a bit because of intolerance to the alcohol?

Could be an underpitch as it's quite a strong beer, If you only pitched one packet of yeast. I've never made a beer with an OG above 1.060 but if I did I'd put more than one packet in. I'd leave it in the FV for up to a month (perhaps even longer it should be ok up to 6 weeks) to see if it clears up

 

[clibit]

I rarely drink lager, but Schiehallion is good.

Lager doesn't really do it for me, it seems to be beer that works very hard to avoid flavour, with neutral yeast, very little malt flavour, and often very little hop flavour. Just a bitter fizzy drink. If I ever made one, I would use some nice hops like Centennial, Nelson Sauvin etc. There are craft brewers making India Lagers, I wouldn't mind trying one of those.

 

[simon12]

Another reason UK lager is crap is they lower the ABV due to our duty which lowers the grain & flavour even the crap generic lagers are slightly better on the continent. Thought the price at the tap duty is not significant its the most expensive part of production. Even using expensive hops and grain on a small scale duty cost much more than all the ingredients put together and pubs are not generally doing well so brewers have to compete on price so lowering ABV makes most sense. So blame HMRC for crap beer.

 

[Tony1951]

Could be an underpitch as it's quite a strong beer, If you only pitched one packet of yeast. I've never made a beer with an OG above 1.060 but if I did I'd put more than one packet in. I'd leave it in the FV for up to a month (perhaps even longer it should be ok up to 6 weeks) to see if it clears up

Thanks for the advice MyQul. It isn't a big strong butterscotch, just a hint. I'll sample it again in a week and see what is happening. I stirred up the vessel this morning to see what happens.

 

[Leon103]

Had a rare night out on the weekend and was having similar conversation with my mates who primarily drink Carling. I was having none of it, even when my mate was saying where served the best Carling in town etc. They soon changed their mind when I explained how it was made and by the end of the night everyone was off lager

 

[MyQul]

I notice Guinness do that hop house 13 lager

 

[krispn]

I've tried the guinness Hop 13 but it's not to my taste. They're trying to break into the craft market but should leave larger/ales well alone. I have to agree Schallion is a good larger - i taste it as 'nutty' and do enjoy it. A local pub in Edinburgh started doing it in bottle and it was so popular they had draught in within about 3 months. This is a bar which regularly has student beer offers and it's not the cheapest pint available. That makes me feel good that ppl are discovering great beer other than the industrial brands.

On a recent visit to Ireland we went to the Wicklow Wolf brewery in Bray (south of Dublin) and had a great day. They make some nice beers - I'm not a fan of every one of them but certainly enjoyed their Free Ranger pale ale and drank a good del of it that weekend! iMy buddy asserts it's his favourite Pale Ale so you can imagine his delight that they make it a few miles from his house! There is so much great beer out there that its heartbreaking to see folk 'demand' the below par stuff. On a recent staff day out the unanimous vote was to hit a proper real ale pub - the democratic vote proving again sometimes people can be trusted!

 

[Fore]

The grass is not always greener. I live on the French German border, and while the lager or Pils is probably near the best, IT'S ALL YOU CAN BLOODY GET! I despair at the whole separate area in my supermarket with about 6 long isles of beer, all filled with nothing but Pils. Really, it's very depressing. Beer is so damn cheap here too, but I have no choice but to brew my own if I want something different. The French throw fruit juices into their beer if they want something different (ref. Picon) .

Oh I do dream about how life would have been different if a work opportunity had opened up in Belgium. This guy can explain it better than me...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7yeYypTd2A[/ame]

Don't bemoan the UK! Normally a choice exists.

 

[LarryF]

Sorry, joining in late. British lager - fizzy p**s, at best. It breaks my heart that a country such as England with such an admirable and proud brewing history is reduced to having most of their drinkers drinking the likes of Carling, Fosters and associated rip off merchants, charging extortionate money for such dreadful beer. Even my beloved Guinness is paling into insignificance compared to what I can brew and the "craft" stouts that I can buy in a Witherspoons. How did it all go sooooo wrong? Don't get me wrong my tastes have changed since I started brewing but let's face it, Carling, Fosters, we always knew they were dreadful.

 

[clibit]

Sorry, joining in late. British lager - fizzy p**s, at best. It breaks my heart that a country such as England with such an admirable and proud brewing history is reduced to having most of their drinkers drinking the likes of Carling, Fosters and associated rip off merchants, charging extortionate money for such dreadful beer. Even my beloved Guinness is paling into insignificance compared to what I can brew and the "craft" stouts that I can buy in a Witherspoons. How did it all go sooooo wrong? Don't get me wrong my tastes have changed since I started brewing but let's face it, Carling, Fosters, we always knew they were dreadful.

Things have actually improved loads in the last 15 years or so. Loads of great beers to drink, where once there was just desert. Lots of people drink rubbish, but we have lots of choice now.

 

[Notlaw]

My opinion on Weatherspoons has changed a lot in the last 3 or 4 years. They now have a really good choice of cask and bottled ales and they're normally pretty well kept too. It's nice to be able to go somewhere that caters for the bigbrewinc swill drinkers and also someone with a more discerning palate, without it being an extortionately priced craft pub.