British and European Malts

[Cheshire Cat]

I was wondering what people's experience is with using British versions of European malts e.g.
Munich
Pilsner
Vienna
Wheat
Rye
Etc.
With the exception of Pilsner where I buy Weyermann's Bohemian for the rest I buy British. For those malts with no apparent British version like
Special B
Buscuit
Honey
Then I buy the European or Canadian malt.
I've not been disappointed using British equivalents but I have no standard for comparison.
Comments please.

 

[An Ankoù]

I bought a sack of Crisp's Vienna in error, I had intended to get Bestmalz. Absolutely no problem at all, I think a tiny bit richer / malt forward than the German malt, which, for my styles is a benefit rather than a problem. I also use it a a substitute for mild ale malt when I run out of that. Note that Crisp's Vienna is made out British 2-row spring barley and not Pilsner malt so I reckon it really is Mild Ale Malt whereas Minch (THBC) is made from continental Pilsner malt.
I agree that there's no substitute for Gambrinus honey malt!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I bought a sack of Crisp's Vienna in error, I had intended to get Bestmalz. Absolutely no problem at all, I think a tiny bit richer / malt forward than the German malt, which, for my styles is a benefit rather than a problem. I also use it a a substitute for mild ale malt when I run out of that. Note that Crisp's Vienna is made out British 2-row spring barley and not Pilsner malt so I reckon it really is Mild Ale Malt whereas Minch (THBC) is made from continental Pilsner malt.
I agree that there's no substitute for Gambrinus honey malt!

Thanks AA have you tried the Minch Lager malt?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I looked at the Minch malt on the the THBC site and they only sell 500g or 25kg of Vienna and Munich. I only want 10kg of each so I mailed them and the response was rapid but Shane confirmed those were the only sizes. So 10kg would cost £19.60 which is far too dear. Whereas Best Malz offering is £14.76 and Weyermann's £15.74.

 

[Clint]

Most of my stuff is Crisp. I initially settled on this in an effort to try and establish a bench mark in consistency and efficiency and never changed.

 

[peebee]

There does appear to be more to it than matching up "colour" as @An Ankoù said. Different barleys, different malting techniques, etc? I do not get on with continental malts at all (I've used Belgium Castle Malting and German Bestmalz) perhaps because my systems are so tuned to British malt that the continental malt gives me really bad extraction efficiency (only 68% mash efficiency for a Bestmalz RedX recently when I expect over 80%).

But differences have go to be good - expands the range of possibilities!

Going on the dodgy "match the colour" method: Perhaps Simpson's newish Imperial Malt (45 EBC - extraordinary for a fully diastatic malt) is a match for Gambrinus honey malt? I've got a batch of "Burton" using 75% Imperial Malt maturing to give it a try. Never tried Gambrinus honey malt so I will be none the wiser.

 

[An Ankoù]

Thanks AA have you tried the Minch Lager malt?

I've got some, but I haven't tried it yet. I think it's the same barley as they use for their pale ale malt, but malted slightly differently and kilned off to a lighter colour. Looking forward to using it and I wouldn't be surprised if it a good substitute for Weyermann's Bohemian Pilsner malt as that's a good "malty" malt. too. As compared with eg Bestmalz Best Heidelberg, which is excellent too, but gives something more like the body and colour of Peroni.
But I only do lagers in the winter, when it's cold and bleak.

 

[An Ankoù]

Never tried Gambrinus honey malt so I will be none the wiser.

It really does give a (sort of) honey flavour. I suspect the Gambrinus is more like a crystal malt wheres the Imperial is kind of midway between a Munich and an amber, but I might be wrong as I'd bnever thought of comparing them side by side. Colorado honey malt is another weird one; much lighter in colour, but still a honeyish taste. There are some weird malts out there.

 

[peebee]

… But I only do lagers in the winter, when it's cold and bleak.

You're having a laugh at us in our "cold and bleak." little northern kingdom. I can tell you know...

I'll think of you drinking your cold lagers in the sun while we perish up here in the howling gales.

 

[An Ankoù]

You're having a laugh at us in our "cold and bleak." little northern kingdom. I can tell you know...

I'll think of you drinking your cold lagers in the sun while we perish up here in the howling gales.

I used to live in Caernarfon so, I know a bit of North Wales. On Sunday, the pubs were all closed so I had to get the bus into the next county to have a pint in Llanfairfechan and hope I didn't miss the last bus home. The beer was ****, the challenge was getting a beer!
No I'm not. We get crisp winters. I've recorded -12 to -10 on the terrace for many mornings running in the winter and had lunch in bright and cold sunshine in the afternoon. And if I do the lagering in an unheated part of the house, it works great. We get the grey, rainy days in spring.

 

[marshbrewer]

I also use it a a substitute for mild ale malt when I run out of that.

How close do you find them, @An Ankoù ? I use both but have never used Vienna in the place of mild if you see what I mean, but if I could I would be able to justify a 25kg sack of it and keep one less malt in stock.

 

[An Ankoù]

How close do you find them, @An Ankoù ? I use both but have never used Vienna in the place of mild if you see what I mean, but if I could I would be able to justify a 25kg sack of it and keep one less malt in stock.

Well I wouldn't want to lead you astray, here. Crisp's and perhaps only Crisp's looks like a mild malt to me. Other Viennas are certainly not. Might be an idea to fire off an email to Crisp's and see what they have to say on the matter.

 

[Zephyr259]

Thanks AA have you tried the Minch Lager malt?

I have, I made 2 pilsners this year with it, didn't get to try the first one as it was my mates batch; lockdown hit and he forgot I hadn't received any bottles. I've got a pilsner just coming good at the moment which I only just realised was my first ever smash beer, 100% Minch lager malt and Styrian Goldings hops, it's good, I don't think I'm a fan of the style as it seems a bit boring compared to the bitter and pale ales I make. The malt seems good, clean and malty, hint of sweetness compared to pale malt. Not a million miles away from the Helles I made 2 years ago with Weyermann pilsner malt, that one never fully carbed so was a bit lifeless, similar clean sweetness from memory though.

 

[trueblue]

I use both Vienna and Aromatic malts in my "house" beer grain bill and have always been happy with Crisps malts and have brewed with them for years. A while back I tried Dingemans for a change and did think there was a slight improvement in mouthfill and body however now the maltmiller is stocking a wide range of Simpsons malts I bought their Vienna and Aronatic along with their Maris Otter. The first few beers I have brewed with Simpsons I have been seriously impressed with an improvement in taste, aroma and efficiency. Still got a few brews to make from this stock but I'm sure the next order will be mainly Simpsons. Next brew going to try their double roast crystal.

 

[An Ankoù]

Well I wouldn't want to lead you astray, here. Crisp's and perhaps only Crisp's looks like a mild malt to me. Other Viennas are certainly not. Might be an idea to fire off an email to Crisp's and see what they have to say on the matter.

I've just sent an email, but in the meantime, have a look at this:
-the bit that talks about recipes using this malt:
https://crispmalt.com/malts/vienna-malt/and this:
https://crispmalt.com/recipes/mild/

 

[An Ankoù]

How close do you find them, @An Ankoù ? I use both but have never used Vienna in the place of mild if you see what I mean, but if I could I would be able to justify a 25kg sack of it and keep one less malt in stock.

Hi Jish,
I've just had a reply from Crisp who confirm that their Vienna is identical to mild malt made from winter barley and is fully diastatic so can be used up to 100%. On the strength of which, I've just ordered another 25 Kg as the only Vienna I had left is from Bestmalz and is made from Pilsner malt.

 

[peebee]

I used to live in Caernarfon so, I know a bit of North Wales. On Sunday, the pubs were all closed so I had to get the bus into the next county to have a pint in Llanfairfechan and hope I didn't miss the last bus home. The beer was ****, the challenge was getting a beer!
No I'm not. We get crisp winters. I've recorded -12 to -10 on the terrace for many mornings running in the winter and had lunch in bright and cold sunshine in the afternoon. And if I do the lagering in an unheated part of the house, it works great. We get the grey, rainy days in spring.

Here's a piccie relevant to your post. And it has nothing to do with the beer ("Centennial Melyn" - "Blonde" - a pseudo-lager brewed from Crisp "extra-pale" pale malt). Nor the bowl of nuts! The table was built by me at Llanfairfechan hospital. As an occupational therapy out-patient in the "heavy workshop"; I narrowly avoided being an in-patient (if you knew what they had as in-patients there!).

About six and seven years ago. People would be astonished if they think hospitals were just beds of sick people.

Not much else goes on at Llanfairfechan Hospital now (apart from the heavy workshops and those "special" in-patients), but it is home for all the 999 ambulance call handling in N. Wales. And home to a high security prison!


We always made the trip down the road from Caernarfon on "dry Sundays". Talysarn or there-abouts. A rare open Marsden's pub serving beer on a Sunday.