Bri's Epic GrainFather G30 Experiment- Could We make Into A Fermentation Vessel?

[Manxnorton]

27th Dec. 23.
following on a thread from Ashman (Feb. 2021)
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ly-in-the-grainfather-g30.92354/#post-1254380As youll be aware, Tech Info overload is a challege and struggle for me.

Just recap i got as far as my ideas of how it can fan out
illto work, just theory.
Then i wanted to eradicate-'put the bed' any problems with contamination via filter,pump & recurc. arm.
Please fire up your ideas of other ways to help me and others.
All i got facing blantly is the silicone insert for the filter.

My theory is

Food-safe duct tape & Jubilee clip.​

Goes without saying, cleaning & sanitasing is 'A given!'
So at this stage can agree that the pump, filter conversation. is put the bed.?
Ill faff on in the brewery and wait as long as it takes for replies and having the team aboard.
Dont quote me think last questions was using water to sim. the wort and test the contoller and emelent button?

For people not au fait on the old G30 buttons and settings.
main top (STC 200)

Bottom

As were only simulating with water, i will go with:
green (set) to 19c-press set again, and it is stored.
top buttom to BOIL, BOTTOM TO NORMAL.
2000w ELEMENT.
As soon near the the 19c, change buttons to mash (top) & mash (bottom)
this will be a 500w elements.

the red Brian (bulb!) heating will go off.

NOW THE PART IM GOING TO TIME AND MONITOR THE TEMP.
Please add your views and ideas.

In my lil brain, it has worked, getting up to temp & holding the 19c.
Anyone with me on this?
Obv the big q's is how good the temp can be controlled and stable with looking after healthy yeastys.
Whilst im testing this over a 4 hour period, lets look at how im going to seal it, using what i have and eventually buy parts!!
this also ideal for your input,ideas, pics & links etc.
off for Xmas turkey sarni

Bri

 

[Manxnorton]

is my info. easy to understand?
I kna im hard work! just dont want to confuse or making anyone annoyed!
(got thick skin anyways!)

 

[Manxnorton]

So my idea of using what i already have for the top is:



A couple of Spunding valves

Looking at 2" bulkhead

And

As i want Pressure fermetation (around 5psi) eventually using that to close transfer to corni keg.
OK take ages,& always look at worse case scenorio, trying no oxidation.
That would be the quickest Auto syphen ive done.
WHAT YOU THINK SO FAR?
AM I MISSING ANTHING (BLINKERS ON!)?
Anyways off to test mysel on Pc gaming.
No bad for a one handed gamer lol.
done the call of duties n gates o hell, nowadays more into Snowrunner n Farming sim 22.

 

[Manxnorton]

 

[Manxnorton]

what can i say!
as i suspected it’s holding 19c
the buety is the insulation quality’s holding that temp, not that i’ve waited around see if it drops!
so still using the small element see if a few degrees say 21c for D rest!
this time green (set) entered 21 & press set again.

500w element

not even 5 mins,

as usual it’ll stop the heat.
what you think of it?
for me left is brew a beer and try.
looking fwd to ideas, suggestions etc.
catch you soon.
bri

 

[Agentgonzo]

I'm not clear on how you intend to seal hole for the pump/recirc arm. If it's with the food grade duct tape, will this hold when it's up to 5 psi? (Assuming you are duct tapping over the inside of the inlet, so the extra pressure pushes the duct tape onto the metal, rather than away from it, then that looks like a good plan)

 

[Agentgonzo]

Once you've pressure fermented the wort, how will you get the beer out? Without a tap at the bottom it could be tricky. Trying to siphon carbonated beer will probably result in foam (have you ever tried sucking beer up through a straw? Even 10cm of head pressure causes a lot of foam).

Even if you were to use the pump to try to pump the carbonated beer out, the churning of the pump may also create foam.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Obv the big q's is how good the temp can be controlled and stable with looking after healthy yeastys.

If you're still monitoring the water temperature, see how much power the unit draws when it is actively heating the water to maintain the temp. My guess is that it'll be tiny - 10s of watts at most. If that's the case, then you know it won't be any more harmful to delicate yeast than the low power mats people have been successfully using for decades (and even if it's higher, it doesn't necessarily mean it's overheating the yeast).

 

[Manxnorton]

I'm not clear on how you intend to seal hole for the pump/recirc arm. If it's with the food grade duct tape, will this hold when it's up to 5 psi? (Assuming you are duct tapping over the inside of the inlet, so the extra pressure pushes the duct tape onto the metal, rather than away from it, then that looks like a good plan)

yeah m8, as much duct tape as i can. and only way is to try! lol.

Once you've pressure fermented the wort, how will you get the beer out? Without a tap at the bottom it could be tricky. Trying to siphon carbonated beer will probably result in foam (have you ever tried sucking beer up through a straw? Even 10cm of head pressure causes a lot of foam).

Even if you were to use the pump to try to pump the carbonated beer out, the churning of the pump may also create foam.

by floating beer line

If you're still monitoring the water temperature, see how much power the unit draws when it is actively heating the water to maintain the temp. My guess is that it'll be tiny - 10s of watts at most. If that's the case, then you know it won't be any more harmful to delicate yeast than the low power mats people have been successfully using for decades (and even if it's higher, it doesn't necessarily mean it's overheating the yeast).

using the 500w took not even 5 mins, coulnt even hear anthing unlike the 2000w for boil.
in this plan, the heat will be pre-pitch. ALREADY USED THE POWER TO GET UP TO pitch temp (soz cap on!)
so itll hold the temp.
Fermention temp rising the system will hit the cooling, itll just switch off and the brewery temp will help, no power used.
the only time i would use the heats is when ferm is nearly done, and acticity temp has dropped.
But so far i found the insulation holds the temp amazing even after 11 years of use.
this is in the lata pics to ramp up 2 degrees.
When you think about it where is the heat at this stage?
under the trub, ok heat rises but as you mentioned the power used is tiny and two degrees is tiny for ramp up.

 

[Manxnorton]

think we’ll get more input to see if it works when i finalise getting the gears.
already earmarked the grain bill etc.
what i’ll do is pre load 5 psi once the build is done, to test the silicone insert and the idea of duct tape n clip to secure it.
looking fwd to getting the parts and crack on.
bri

 

[Agentgonzo]

Good call on pre loading. Much easier to find/fix a leak with water rather than potentially watch your brew leak away

 

[Manxnorton]

only need the duct tape n we’re in buissness! the two items ordered.

 

[Manxnorton]

I ferment in kettle (FIK) all the time in my BM20. Fan-bleedy-tastic.


Yes indeed the element is too powerful. It will have too much lag to be sensitive enough.

Get a stick-on 220v/50w silicone tank heater (£5 on ebay) & an inkbird. Insulate with a sleeping bag. Sorted.

For English ales, this works a treat, I cannot speak for other styles.

An MJ hop spider is best to be able to remove the hop debris. YOU MUST REMOVE THE MAJORITY OF SPENT HOP.

Hot Break etc is fine. There are arguments both ways. A bit of trub is yeast Nutrient. Tried rinsing it out and then returning the wort. Pointless.

Overnight chill too.

Take reasonable steps for blockages. Blow back to clear.

I have not found Infections to be issue. Tbh I do think there is increased risk but running the wort, through more hoses, pumps and buckets than leaving it on the one that has just boiled

Bottle warm. Get a bouncer. It won't disappoint.

I FIK in the summer with a chiller lid.

Good call on pre loading. Much easier to find/fix a leak with water rather than potentially watch your brew leak away

yeah pal i want to make sure n not fall flat lata on.
as far the filter mech! it’s the only thing i can come with as the filter comes in 3 parts (filter, end cap & insert)
wanted less surface area that could course problems, plus a new silicone insert it two to a penny! and jubilee clips is part of our homebrew kit lol.

 

[foxy]

So my idea of using what i already have for the top is:
View attachment 93924
View attachment 93927
View attachment 93929
A couple of Spunding valves
View attachment 93928
Looking at 2" bulkhead
View attachment 93926
And
View attachment 93925
As i want Pressure fermetation (around 5psi) eventually using that to close transfer to corni keg.
OK take ages,& always look at worse case scenorio, trying no oxidation.
That would be the quickest Auto syphen ive done.
WHAT YOU THINK SO FAR?
AM I MISSING ANTHING (BLINKERS ON!)?
Anyways off to test mysel on Pc gaming.
No bad for a one handed gamer lol.
done the call of duties n gates o hell, nowadays more into Snowrunner n Farming sim 22.

Those retaining clips don't hold pressure, well they may hold more if the brackets were fully welded. Those brackets are spot-welded and break off, I witnessed it when people started trying to pressure ferment in the Guten Fermenters. As to how much pressure was being applied I have no idea, but four dots of spot welding won't hold a lot.

 

[MashBag]

.. and two degrees is tiny for ramp up.

I think it is...that is the exact temp you use to rouse/restart a stuck fermentation.
Gently is the key. Whoosh, bang, have some, isn't it (I better go, I am starting to sound like Anton d'Beke)


Instead of gaffer tape, what about a silicone bung.

 

[Manxnorton]

Those retaining clips don't hold pressure, well they may hold more if the brackets were fully welded. Those brackets are spot-welded and break off, I witnessed it when people started trying to pressure ferment in the Guten Fermenters. As to how much pressure was being applied I have no idea, but four dots of spot welding won't hold a lot.

sorry just getting my cobwebs off my nighttime meds away!
is the retaining clips off the G30 to fasten onto lid?
i’ll wait to get the right in!
all i say we’re looking no more than 5psi.
so why it’s spot welded? and one of the ideas of the G30 is for distilling! as you can imagine the high pressure on the lid during this operation!!
btw how do i know i’m a law breaker, i just had to try it, both pot and column. (for full disclosure i have not them anymore)
so it goes back to why spot weld if in testing it’s failed?
i get you Ref. seeing failure on a system! but i’m not putting high pressure into the system and low temps!
hope you understand me lol.
the G30 has the same retaining clips as my old distilling kettle


maybe i missing something (obv a few brain cells)
thank for taking time pal, really interesting, i’m sure my head get around the answer!

 

[Manxnorton]

I think it is...that is the exact temp you use to rouse/restart a stuck fermentation.
Gently is the key. Whoosh, bang, have some, isn't it (I better go, I am starting to sound like Anton d'Beke)


Instead of gaffer tape, what about a silicone bung.

hallo m8
please go further on this silicone bung thing! any links etc. for the mo we out a visual i’m as much use as a silencer on an atom bomb.
hmmmm! it’ll get me thinking
cheers pal
bri

 

[Manxnorton]

anyhoo lads n lasses.
CIP etc ready for brew day.


and i got a few lengths of floating tube, if the one i’m waiting on doesn’t fit the purpose!

 

[Agentgonzo]

and one of the ideas of the G30 is for distilling! as you can imagine the high pressure on the lid during this operation!!

Distilling won't actually create high pressure. As it boils, the steam/alcohol vapour just exits out of the open end if the copper lid thingy.

I don't know whether the retaining clips will be able to clamp the lid down onto the body of the GF with sufficient force to make an adequate seal to maintain the 5PSI. I guess the only way you'll find out is to try it.

Edit: though thinking about it, the clamps look pretty much the same as the ones on the klarstein/brew monk/SS brewtech that the lid was designed for, so the physics will probably be the same so it'll probably be alright.

 

[Manxnorton]

Distilling won't actually create high pressure. As it boils, the steam/alcohol vapour just exits out of the open end if the copper lid thingy.

I don't know whether the retaining clips will be able to clamp the lid down onto the body of the GF with sufficient force to make an adequate seal to maintain the 5PSI. I guess the only way you'll find out is to try it.

Edit: though thinking about it, the clamps look pretty much the same as the ones on the klarstein/brew monk/SS brewtech that the lid was designed for, so the physics will probably be the same so it'll probably be alright.

i like your style, as in keeping my straight on things that i dont know, i love re-learning, thanks m8.

"I don't know whether the retaining clips will be able to clamp the lid down onto the body of the GF with sufficient force to make an adequate seal to maintain the 5PSI. I guess the only way you'll find out is to try it."
off i go back down to the brewery n look at the two lids.
get back to u.
Bri