Brewing Extract.... when to add the extract?

[rpt]

It's interesting that you need some wort when you boil the hops - you can't just use water.

 

[ScottM]

It's interesting that you need some wort when you boil the hops - you can't just use water.

This is the last piece of the puzzle I'm trying to figure out. I can't for the life of me think of why it would make any odds.

 

[tommillski]

Did anyone have a go at this? I'm wondering whether to go 50/50 or 20/80..

 

[graysalchemy]

Scott it does the AA won't get fixed without the wort. I can't remember the reason but I asked Aleman about as I wanted to add more bitterness to a brew.

What does happen as the OG increases the Hop utilisation decreases but this is to do with the AA dropping out in the cold break, but you still need wort to fix the AA's.

 

[cwiseman77]

Did anyone have a go at this? I'm wondering whether to go 50/50 or 20/80..

I tried going 50/50 with the extract on an IPA I brewed this afternoon. I've always just stuck it all in at the start but after reading up on it thought I'd try half at the start and half at flameout. Seemed to work well, hit target OG on the nose :thumb:

 

[ScottM]

I went for it with zero fermentables during the boil. Immediately after flameout I added the extract, gave a good mix and sat in the sink with running water to chill it. Didn't take too long at all.

Will see how it turns out :)

 

[tommillski]

I tried going 50/50 with the extract on an IPA I brewed this afternoon. I've always just stuck it all in at the start but after reading up on it thought I'd try half at the start and half at flameout. Seemed to work well, hit target OG on the nose :thumb:

I went for it with zero fermentables during the boil. Immediately after flameout I added the extract, gave a good mix and sat in the sink with running water to chill it. Didn't take too long at all.

Will see how it turns out :)

Interesting! I've always gone 100% at the beginning. Think I'll stick to 50/50 and see ho yours pans out Scott!

 

[ScottM]

I tried going 50/50 with the extract on an IPA I brewed this afternoon. I've always just stuck it all in at the start but after reading up on it thought I'd try half at the start and half at flameout. Seemed to work well, hit target OG on the nose :thumb:

I went for it with zero fermentables during the boil. Immediately after flameout I added the extract, gave a good mix and sat in the sink with running water to chill it. Didn't take too long at all.

Will see how it turns out :)

Interesting! I've always gone 100% at the beginning. Think I'll stick to 50/50 and see ho yours pans out Scott!

Yeah me too. I just did it though, with no rhym or reason other than that's what the instructions said. I like to understand how things work and the reason for doing things, and I couldn't find any real reason for doing it this way.... in fact it would appear it's more beneficial for hop utilisation to leave most/all of it until the end.

Will see how it is anyway, I'm hoping for mega hops

 

[cwiseman77]

Well with you trying all the extract at the end and me trying 50/50 for the first time I feel as if we've stumbled upon a wee experiment here Scott. Be interested to see how it pans out. How did your brew day go, you get close to your target FG? Did you notice any difference with adding the extract last? I guess the only visible difference would be less wort darkening. If you've achieve better hop utilisation I guess you won't know till you taste it! What kind of beer did you brew?

 

[ScottM]

Well with you trying all the extract at the end and me trying 50/50 for the first time I feel as if we've stumbled upon a wee experiment here Scott. Be interested to see how it pans out. How did your brew day go, you get close to your target FG? Did you notice any difference with adding the extract last? I guess the only visible difference would be less wort darkening. If you've achieve better hop utilisation I guess you won't know till you taste it! What kind of beer did you brew?

Everything went great, other than forgetting to take the OG lol. By the time I realised I had it all snug in the fridge and at temp, so I didn't want to disturb anything. It won't be far off what I calculated though.... 1.048

There wasn't really any difference at all, the wort darkening will definitely be a bonus though as it's a German light lager I'm making.

Hop utilisation will be where I should notice it though. I was going for a fairly strong hop flavour/aroma, akin to Grolsch, so if that pans out well then I think I'll call it a success :)

It's in the fermenting fridge just now, sitting at a steady 10 degrees.

 

[cwiseman77]

Well with you trying all the extract at the end and me trying 50/50 for the first time I feel as if we've stumbled upon a wee experiment here Scott. Be interested to see how it pans out. How did your brew day go, you get close to your target FG? Did you notice any difference with adding the extract last? I guess the only visible difference would be less wort darkening. If you've achieve better hop utilisation I guess you won't know till you taste it! What kind of beer did you brew?

Everything went great, other than forgetting to take the OG lol. By the time I realised I had it all snug in the fridge and at temp, so I didn't want to disturb anything. It won't be far off what I calculated though.... 1.048

There wasn't really any difference at all, the wort darkening will definitely be a bonus though as it's a German light lager I'm making.

Hop utilisation will be where I should notice it though. I was going for a fairly strong hop flavour/aroma, akin to Grolsch, so if that pans out well then I think I'll call it a success :)

It's in the fermenting fridge just now, sitting at a steady 10 degrees.

Well good luck. You watching UFC this weekend?

 

[ScottM]

Well good luck. You watching UFC this weekend?

Should be, definitely hoping to sit up for it (work dependant). Should be a good one, I like Henderson's style.

Did you watch on Saturday? I didn't see it till Sunday, underwhelmed with the final but the chick fight was awesome!

Really looking forward to seeing Jones again next week. That should be an awesome fight.

 

[cwiseman77]

Main event was so-so but that's to be expected with those 2. The event on the whole, undercard, the female fight was a great. I'm working till 10pn tomorrow and off Sunday and SWMBO is away so will definately be staying up to watch. Should be a good event, I don't think Melendez has much to offer Benson to be honest.

Jones/Sonned should also be good, Jones shouldnt have too much trouble but don't think it'll be as easy as some people think. If chael can put him on his back it will become VERY interesting

 

[Duxuk]

It looks like I've been doing it all wrong!..................Or have I????????????
I make extract by dissolving the extract in a smallish amount of water which I bring to the boil and put in my FV. I then boil the hops in water and, when finished, sieve into the FV, rinsing with copious amounts of water at about 75C, so as not to convert the AAs to iso AAs anymore. I like it hoppy so you might imagine my beer to be poor. Well far be it from me to boast but my extract brews have reach a point where I can no longer find a shop bought bottle that is as good. In fact homebrewing has rather ruined bottled beers for me :cry:

If a dissolved chemical has to travel through a cell wall a higher concentration on the other side helps. Check your O'level biology notes! This may be more of a factor at flameout since you are not cooking the hops to break the cell wall, however 20g of hops per litre will still give a massive late hopped taste, which seems to get into the water very quickly, you can tell by tasting it.

Theories are all well and good but the proof of the beer is in the drinking!

 

[Pearlfisher]

POPS homebrew extract kits using Coopers liquid ME require the hops to be boiled in water only at different stages , they're excellent and full of hop flavours.

 

[graysalchemy]

Hops have 3 main components to them which will affect the flavour of the beer.

Firstly polyphenols or tannins, these need to be removed and this is done by the boil and proteins in the wort, they get precipitated in the trub, leave too much in and you get grassey flavours.

The Hops acids are not very soluble in aqueous solutions and need to be isomerised into to more soluble alpha Acids, this requires a pH of around 5.2 which is what your wort that comes out of the mash is.

Finally the Hop oils provide the aroma , these are driven off by boiling hence why we add aroma hops at the end of the boil.

If you were to boil hops in just water then the pH would be too high and be lacking in flavour, and you would not remove the Polyphenols.

 

[Pearlfisher]

Hops have 3 main components to them which will affect the flavour of the beer.

Firstly polyphenols or tannins, these need to be removed and this is done by the boil and proteins in the wort, they get precipitated in the trub, leave too much in and you get grassey flavours.

The Hops acids are not very soluble in aqueous solutions and need to be isomerised into to more soluble alpha Acids, this requires a pH of around 5.2 which is what your wort that comes out of the mash is.

Finally the Hop oils provide the aroma , these are driven off by boiling hence why we add aroma hops at the end of the boil.

If you were to boil hops in just water then the pH would be too high and be lacking in flavour, and you would not remove the Polyphenols.

Amazing how they turn out so good then . :wha:

 

[ScottM]

Worked an absolute treat. The bitterness is really there and very pronounced, I could have held back a fair bit and still had enough. Just goes to show you

 

[cwiseman77]

Worked an absolute treat. The bitterness is really there and very pronounced, I could have held back a fair bit and still had enough. Just goes to show you

Remind me what you done again Scott. How much of the extract did you hold back until the end?

 

[ScottM]

Worked an absolute treat. The bitterness is really there and very pronounced, I could have held back a fair bit and still had enough. Just goes to show you

Remind me what you done again Scott. How much of the extract did you hold back until the end?

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