Brewers Social Club - Possible?

[Hudson1984]

Hi all, bit of a fly-in-the-sky topic as i'm not really looking to do it in earnest but perhaps something could make it happen someday.

So, I work from home, largely on my own and largely bored from lack of interaction. I enjoy my job, don't enjoy being at home doing it.

Next year, should some of my more lucrative contracts come in, I might look to purchase a commercial premises, now anything I get it going to be too big for me to use so I was day dreaming about potential uses of some of the spaces i've seen. And a "social club" type of arrangement always comes into my head.

I have converted my garage into somewhat of a pub - not that I was really a pub regular (and even more so since our son arrived) but I like a bit of darts, like having beer on tap and like to get out of the house even though it's actually connected to the house!

anyway, back on topic...

So, imagine an open space, some of this would be dedicated office (for me to sit on my own and be bored) some - and perhaps most of the actual space - would be dedicated to a brewers social area, i'd of course have the brewing setup installed there, a pool table, TV, Seating, bar etc etc all the comforts of a brew pub.

Now, to this point all is fairly simple. But to use the space, it would need to generate some form of income, and I wondered on the legality of how this would be possible. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to own a pub, I don't want to quit my day job and I've no real aspirations of becoming the next brew dog! BUT here's the thoughts.

Once a month, the invited brewers/friends of brewers/friends of friends of brewers congregate to have a drink/dance/natter.

All beers would be on tap via cornies, and sold for a nominal price per pint - for example £2 a pint.
For brewers, £1/pint would be returned on their sales, £1 per pint would go to "the house" for upkeep etc.

Just wondered if something like this would be possible to do? Again, I'm not looking to open a commercial brewery, or to really open a pub. Just a sustainable social club.

I imagine the simple answer is "don't" but hey let's pretend covid isn't hear and we can actually meet people

 

[The Cat]

Pretty sure you cannot charge for your own brew.

 

[Clint]

As it's "homebrew" you can't sell it or even give it away for free legally...it's just for you. Do what you mentioned and you become a commercial producer...you'll have the 'elfnsafety,your local council,your house insurance etc. all over it and the tax man...and that's putting it simply.

 

[crowcrow]

Sounds like an excellent idea - assuming would have all sorts of tax and licensing issues, but still sounds like a great idea!

Another way to look at it might be as a private 'hacker space' type model, where people pay a monthly fee to use the space and tooks/equipment - I know the hack space in Hackney used to have nights where beer was drunk, and I used to go to plenty of meet-ups where free beer was served without a licence.

Good luck, love the idea

 

[Leon103]

What you have described is a pub.

Instead why not once a week you move your office into the pub. A lot of pubs are now renting space for a minimal fee you get unlimited tea/coffee and a sandwich. I believe these have become more popular in rural areas over lock down.

 

[foxy]

If you want to start a business involving brewing and excluding customs and excise.
https://www.adrenaline.com.au/beer/...nIkLIduv7ZdEZjt348kct2RBhsgdfDx0aAvH2EALw_wcB

 

[jceg316]

Whilst I wish you well and want to be encouraging with your idea, it does sound like a pub without the licences. If that's what you wanna go down, you will need to set up as a brewery. That will need planning permission/change of premises if you buy somewhere which isn't the right premises. You'll then need a brewer's licence, inspection from EHO, find a legal way to remove spent grain. And to sell the alcohol you need a premises licence. This is kind of top level as each step requires quite a bit of work. I don't want to put you off, but it can be quite hard work and a bit of a headache. You'll soon realise £2 pint probably won't cover costs. The premises licence is cheaper if you apply as a club house, but you can't make a profit on the bar.

There are some ways around it. If you're holding a charity event you can give beer away, however you need to be explicit that the alcohol is free. If you just want a gathering of people and some cheap beer, this could be a good way forward. ~£10 entry or so, free beer, money goes to a costs of running the evening and proceeds to a charity you support.

You could run a brew club. Members come over to brew beer on your kit and once a month they drink the beer. They pay for resources: ingredients, some running costs, maybe your time, then sit around drinking the homebrew, which is free. People could bring their own homebrew and swap.

 

[chesters-mild]

Well, that brings in an interesting question about 'Home Brew Clubs

As it's "homebrew" you can't sell it or even give it away for free legally...it's just for you.

As most members will bring a bottle or two to share / sample with other members - how legal is that? I know most clubs meet in pubs and advertise the meetings.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

We have had this discussion several times, it's illegal to share but who is going to care or catch you doing it.

 

[An Ankoù]

I have converted my garage into somewhat of a pub - not that I was really a pub regular (and even more so since our son arrived) but I like a bit of darts, like having beer on tap and like to get out of the house even though it's actually connected to the house!

Nothing more boring than drinking alone. I never had any interest in selling a drop and don't give a monkey's toss about claimed laws that suggest I can't give away or share as much as I like.
Converted my garage back in the day. Put some carpet on the floor, got a decent music system and some comfortable chairs and a dart board and invited the neighbours round regularly. Always had two or three pressure barrels on (Boots, mainly. They didn't leak and I had little trouble maintaining them) and this allowed me to brew as regularly as I liked rather than having to drink my way through 40 pints. Garage "opening" depended on having prime beer ready to shift.
I'd say go for it, but don't even think about trying to cover your costs.
What a stupid idea not being able to give your beer away. I suspect that sharing bought (duty paid) beer, especially in return for or in repayment of a favour technically counts as resale, as would buying rounds in the expectation of being bought a beer in return.
In any case, there is no law in the UK any more. Cummings et al do what they like and it's OK. International treaties are treated with contempt and it's just fine. About time the rest of the country cought up, don't you think.

 

[Dave Parry]

I have two relevant perspectives on this: I run a brew club and I own an office where I rent out desks at £200 + VAT per month.

The desk rental business is great. Office cost me £150k, 6 years ago. Just paid off the mortgage this month. Demand has increased since COVID so we are nearly full. We've moved all the desks further apart of course, hand sanitiser everywhere etc. All the desk renters and my own employees insist they can’t work effectively from home, for various reasons (no space, distractions, mental health, ability to collaborate etc). Most of them get their employer to pay for the desk instead of travelling to Birmingham or London.

The brew club works really well too. It’s all my kit (50L, three vessel, 4 FVs) but nominally we share it amongst a group of 12 of us to brew on it collectively. This hadn’t worked so well during Covid of course so I’ve been solo brewing out of necessity. All members buy a 5L darkfarm keg (I hate bottling) and they have a share of the collaborative brew, splitting the cost of the ingredients. I called HMRC back at the beginning and chatted to a very helpful expert on this and she said this would be ok under the ‘domestic use’ definition. We are very strictly not selling it, we drink it ourselves in the home setting.

Check us out on Instagram (beerfoundryuk).

Hope that helps.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hope that helps.

Both excellent ideas, especially the desk-rental scheme. Sharing the overheads of brewing between a dozen like-minded home brewers is also a great way of running a homebrew club, but I think the OP was talking about sharing his own output with non-brewing neighbours and trying to recoup some of the costs, which is an entirely different kettle of wort.

 

[Dave Parry]

the OP was talking about sharing his own output with non-brewing neighbours

I think the point is that my club is of neighbours/friends who weren’t home brewers beforehand. They are only brewers now by sharing the communal kit.

I don’t think it works so well with other brewers - they have their own kit and want to use it

 

[An Ankoù]

I think the point is that my club is of neighbours/friends who weren’t home brewers beforehand. They are only brewers now by sharing the communal kit.

I don’t think it works so well with other brewers - they have their own kit and want to use it

Now you're talking. It gets better and better. I agree with both the points you make above.
I don't have an Instagram account and have no intention of opening one, but I managed to see quite a number of photos before being asked to log in. Very impressive. :hat:

 

[Hudson1984]

loads of great responses there, certainly we're on the same page Dave, I think really, I want a social club, but don't have the time to run it and really don't think it would make enough money to support someone else doing it - that being said, the village/town I live in, has no social club, no town hall and no pub!!!!!! The last pub is now a pharmacy. There are other pubs within 4 miles in neighbouring areas but nothing that could be called a local really.
I think if I were to purchase the premises, there are far more lucrative ways to use it, i.e. hot desks as you've done, or hiring it out to Zumba/Yoga clubs etc. and therefore no real HMRC issues or licensing etc which is a shame as what the village needs is a pub but it's just not worth doing.

Perhaps a mixture of ideas is indeed possible - give the "brewery" (use that loosely, I don't have enough kit to be called a brewery!) a dedicated area - more for me and perhaps club members to use the communal kit.
Main area as a rental space - aforementioned Zumba etc
If the office is large enough, hot desks.

Then on "club nights" open it as a social club - let people swap beers, forget about taking money over the "bar" but perhaps at least have a "bar" area, to serve teas and coffees, which if any of the sporting clubs hold a meeting for example, they can use the sparge tank (tea urn) to keep people happy.

There's certainly things that can be done, but perhaps it would be a business supporting a social enterprise rather than a social enterprise supporting itself.

 

[Dave Parry]

@Hudson1984 you don’t say but I’m presuming you are in the UK. If so, have you considered setting up a members club? The licensing laws are much simpler. See here

Club licensing guidance

 

[Hudson1984]

ah that's more of what i'm really thinking about. Have to look into that route a little more certainly.