Bottles Vs Kegs... why do my bottles taste rancid?

[dodsi]

new to this brewing malarky.. I have brewed

Woodfords Wherry... kegged... lovely.
festival Lanlords best... bottled... nasty
Festival Old fathers hooks... kegged... lovely
Festival suffolk strong ale... bottled... nasty
Wherry the second... Kegged... Lovely

fermenting... Festival London Porter... buying another keg for this tomorrow as its nearly at FG

my bottling technique is to transfer to a sanitized second FV with a bottler attachment and batch prime, sanitize bottles in another FV then rinse and drain on a bottling tree before filling from bottler and capping.

they are just re-used beer bottles (various sizes from 500ml to 568ml to 660ml

all are then left in the warm for 2 weeks and cool for atleast 4 further weeks... carbonation is not an issue... they are carbed enough.

when poured they do not keep a head... and just taste... pants really.

Kegged beers I have, great head retention and lovely smooth taste, I tend to always prefer cask beers in pubs.. love Timmy Taylor Landlord from the pump.. not keen on the bottles.

I put it to your collective FAR superior knowledge to tell me what I am doing wrong.

Thanks in advance.

 

[alanywiseman.]

If you could describe the off flavors that would help work out the problem :thumb:

 

[31bb3]

Do you steralise the caps ? Have you tried priming each bottle as opposed to batch priming

 

[johnnyboy1965]

What are you using for priming sugar?

 

[Baz Chaz]

Find this problem a bit surprising, although there's obviously something amiss :wha:

I've bottled well over 125 gallons of beer in the last few years and had the grand total of ONE 'bad' bottle, which I obviously hadn't rinsed properly, the taste was just sterilizing fluid :sick: but one out of in the region of 1000 bottles isn't a bad result :!:

 

[Ceejay]

"sanitize bottles in another FV then rinse and drain"

Could be this - you're sanitizing, then rinsing with presumably unsanitized tap water.

 

[Muddydisco]

What are you using to sanitise the bottles?

 

[Sandimas]

Could be this - you're sanitizing, then rinsing with presumably unsanitized tap water.

I do this with every brew (26 of them) - never had a problem.

Your technique sounds spot on, although I never bother with a second FV. Not sure of the problem, but why don't you split a brew, half in the keg and half in bottles, and see what happens? I do this with most my ale brews and find it does taste different coming from the bottle rather than the keg, but not in a bad way.

 

[RobWalker]

do you think it's in your head more than anything? i find kegged beers smoother with bottled beers having a rusty sort of twang to them, but not unpleasant...

 

[Springer]

As others have said bottled beer is fine, for several reasons, we just need to solve your problem. :?
I always batch prime, with a boiled sugar solution. :) Just another option to consider.
There are several serving mediums, I use cornies, bottles or pins, depending on the purpose, stay with it.
You describe your bottled stuff as rancid, nasty pants. :? Can we focus in a bit to the problem ?
Are you sure you like bottled beers, is it just over carbonated, I am at the low end and just aim for a slight phiss :? :lol: when popped.

S

 

[bottler]

new to this brewing malarky.. I have brewed

Woodfords Wherry... kegged... lovely.
festival Lanlords best... bottled... nasty
Festival Old fathers hooks... kegged... lovely
Festival suffolk strong ale... bottled... nasty
Wherry the second... Kegged... Lovely

fermenting... Festival London Porter... buying another keg for this tomorrow as its nearly at FG

my bottling technique is to transfer to a sanitized second FV with a bottler attachment and batch prime, sanitize bottles in another FV then rinse and drain on a bottling tree before filling from bottler and capping.

they are just re-used beer bottles (various sizes from 500ml to 568ml to 660ml

all are then left in the warm for 2 weeks and cool for atleast 4 further weeks... carbonation is not an issue... they are carbed enough.

when poured they do not keep a head... and just taste... pants really.

Kegged beers I have, great head retention and lovely smooth taste, I tend to always prefer cask beers in pubs.. love Timmy Taylor Landlord from the pump.. not keen on the bottles.

I put it to your collective FAR superior knowledge to tell me what I am doing wrong.

Thanks in advance.

I only use bottles and havnt had the nasty beer experience you've had. At a loss this end as to whats happening with your bottled brews :wha:

 

[bobsbeer]

In some cases I have noticed a difference depending on the brew. Some seem better in the bottle, others in the keg. But while there was a difference, I would not go so far as nasty. All were/are very drinkable. Have you done a side by side test? Keg part and bottle part of the same brew to see how they come out. It may be just the recipe is designed for one or the other.

 

[BerkshireBadger]

Are you pouring them carefully? If you pour sediment into the glass that can make the beer taste 'off' and I've noticed that the head goes quicker if I've been careless when pouring...

 

[IanCompetent]

Most people on here seem to have hit on most of the common issues. Do you use the same syphon for kegs as you do for bottles?? Your syphon may have an infection or your caps may be infected.

Also, are you doding anything fermentation-wise that is different from bottle to keg?? People tend to keg earlier. If you leave the beer on the yeast too long, it can produce off-flavours.

 

[TRXnMe]

What are you using to sanitise the bottles?

I'll second this ^^ question.

I've bottled and kegged over 60 gallons this year, so far no problems with either, apart from getting sugar on the seat so the cap can't seal beer was still OK, just flat.

Tap water is very unlikely to be a problem, as dodsi is using kits he will be topping up the wort with tap water, and the kegs have come out nice.

 

[Dronfieldbrewer]

I bet its the yeast sediment getting a bit mixed in, this gives a dry in the mouth cotton wool feel. If bottling, I drop the beer off the **** at the bottom of FV into another fermenter, leave this to settle somewhere really cool for a couple of days, this drops out more **** then drop this into your bottling bucket batch priming it with a preboiled and cooled sugar solution,(20 tsps for 23litres with 1/2 pint of water or thereabouts).

when following this and following a strict sanitizing procedure I end up with the thinnish sheen of yeast in the bottom of the bottle, less than some commercial "bottled conditioned" beers. The yeast helps, so use WLP002, S04 or Notty as these yeasts are renown for sticking to the bottom of bottles like a Banker to a Bonus.

With a bit of practice, you should really get an improvement in your bottles so that there is no difference between these and your kegged stuff.

As most improvements come with trial and error, don't expect for everything to work first go, I am currently struggling to keep consistency with efficiency, sometimes I get a better extraction of sugars from grain sometimes hopeless. Its all part of the learning curve that is brewing

 

[anthonyUK]

The only thing I do differently to you is rinse in a Campden solution but this may not be required depending on your sanitiser. I'm also in the 'never had a problem' camp I'm afraid.

 

[peelman]

Do you sanitise the bottling tree?
What about using a non rinse sanitiser?
Just a couple of shots in the dark really....

 

[dodsi]

bit of a late reply...

I have not bottled since posting this but am about to bottle a brewferm raspberry beer (framboos) and then brew a brewferm kreik for bottling.

all my bottles are rinsed after pouring beer out and I will be rinsing them all out a few times with warm water after sterilizing in an FV.

I also have some woodefords kits that I intend on bottling (wherry really) which I have bought some better yeast for (so4)

so to recap...

fill FV with sterilizing solution.
place bottles in
leave for 15/30mins
shake out and rinse each bottle.
throw sterilizing solution over bottle tree
rinse off bottle tree
place all bottles on tree to drain.
fill from little bottler tool carefully
cap
warm for a week or 2
cool for a few months
taste...

any issues you can see? or anything I can do to improve new technique.

 

[calumscott]

throw sterilizing solution over bottle tree
rinse off bottle tree

No need. Only the tiniest bit of the tree contacts the inside of your bottle. I just bung mine in steriliser every six months or so.

Apart from that, all looks good to me, 'tis the way I do it.