Bottles better than the barrel: How?

[devyhead]

I started to brew a batch of Coopers Stout on 3rd May and transferred it the a pressure barrel and 4 bottles. I mixed the second lot of sugar to the brew before I transferred it to the relevant finishing vessel ( I realize now this may not have been the best idea, but bear with me). SG was 1.034 and FG was 1.006. Another mistake I made was loosening the cap of the pressure barrel before the brew had properly finished (I was trying to see if the cap I bought for CO2 bottles fitted the CO2 bottles I'd bought; it didn't), thus releasing alot of pressure from the barrel.
After nearly 2 month of finishing, I decided to do a taste. The bottle is pretty good (for a 2nd brew amyway), but the barrel was lacking strength of flavour and any sort of gas.
I understand that the release of gas was probably the deciding factor in the gassiness of my brew, but would it have affected the flavour too? Or is there something else I could have done that hass contributed to this difference? Any help is greatly appreciated

 

[Grunaki]

I just did a batch of Cooper's Aussie Stout - left it in the FV for about a month before I bottled it - It tastes great at room temp even before gasification... TBH it doesn't really need gas, but I siphoned it into another FV, stuck a cup of white sugar in there and stirred it up before bottling.. It's only been about 3 days and the fizz is minimal, but it adds a little bit to the flavor... Don't want it too fizzy though.

Don't know what to tell you.. Aeration may ruin the taste a bit... I don't have a keg (wish I did), just loads of bottles that do my Wife's head in.. :rofl:

 

[LeithR]

I think you have identified the issue correctly about the lack of fizz. The flavour difference may be related to how you sterilized and rinsed your PB and what sterilizer you used. There are non-rinse sterilizers available but I find that I'm happier with putting in the effort to insuring all vessels have been rinsed.

I also suspect that barrels because of their rough inside surface will also be harder to rinse than glass bottles which have a smooth surface and thus fewer places for nasties to lurk. I always use a brush to scrub the inside of my PB's.

 

[devyhead]

I think you have identified the issue correctly about the lack of fizz. The flavour difference may be related to how you sterilized and rinsed your PB and what sterilizer you used. There are non-rinse sterilizers available but I find that I'm happier with putting in the effort to insuring all vessels have been rinsed.

I also suspect that barrels because of their rough inside surface will also be harder to rinse than glass bottles which have a smooth surface and thus fewer places for nasties to lurk. I always use a brush to scrub the inside of my PB's.

I cleaned my bottles with a bottle brush, but I reckon I'd struggle finding a brush big enough for my barrel! :lol: I don't like the sound of a non-rinse steriliser mind; I'd probably just end up rinsing it anyway! :lol: Any tips for cleaning out a barrel?

 

[fbsf]

Oxy powder and very hot water. Will shift most things!

 

[andyakameatloaf]

stuck a cup of white sugar in there and stirred it up before bottling..

Just for point of fact, you shouldnt really be stirring sugar into your brew after fermentation. Any aeration at that point is potentially damaging to the beer.

It's better to put your sugar into the bottom of the vessel you are carbonating in, then siphon your beer on top of it with minimal splashing :thumb:

 

[Vossy1]

I've found that bottled ales age a lot more slowly than kegged brews, they can still taste fresh when a keg is long on the downward slope. I suppose it's the difference between bulk and bottle conditioning though I can't explain it any more than that, just what my experience is :drink:

 

[Grunaki]

stuck a cup of white sugar in there and stirred it up before bottling..

Just for point of fact, you shouldnt really be stirring sugar into your brew after fermentation. Any aeration at that point is potentially damaging to the beer.

It's better to put your sugar into the bottom of the vessel you are carbonating in, then siphon your beer on top of it with minimal splashing :thumb:

Does that really work out though? I did my last brew by sugaring the bottles and pouring the beer on top, and it sat there as a sludge unless I shook the bottle up to mix it in.. It could be the whole 'corn sugar vs white sugar' argument again though.. The corn sugar would probably just melt in on contact as it's finely ground, but the white sugar needs a bit of persuasion to dissolve.

 

[evanvine]

It could be the whole 'corn sugar vs white sugar' argument again though

I get the impression that "corn sugar" is a US/Canada thing.
Still beats me how you get sugar from corn! :wha:

 

[Tankboi]

Bottling with white sugar I was told it was good practice to turn the bottle upside down a few times to mix it, but it would be better to use the finer grinds so you don't have to mess it about.

Corn sugar is supposed to be really good, I've found it in most homebrew shops but have yet to try it myself.

 

[screamlead]

I Never touch my bottles once the sugar beer and cap has been fitted apart from moving somewhere warm in a crate for a month or so then trans to fridge for a few days then start testing ! works everytime - no need to stir up or mix the sugar the residual yeasties take care of it no problem at all. I dont have kegs or cornies yet just bottles so cant comment on those.
:thumb:

 

[Duxuk]

Got up at quater past six. Chucked the dead space beer in my keg down the drain outside. Sterilised with Chemipro no rinse steriliser for a couple of minutes and set my syphon tube going, held in place with duck tape.
By the time I'd made a bit of brekkie for the family the syphon was finised. 100g sugar and screw the cap on. Job done. Bottling takes ages in comparison, so that's one advantage of kegs over bottles. I also have about 120 bottles, just to keep stocks up. It's very rare that I have to stoop as low as shop bought ales :

 

[andyakameatloaf]

stuck a cup of white sugar in there and stirred it up before bottling..

Just for point of fact, you shouldnt really be stirring sugar into your brew after fermentation. Any aeration at that point is potentially damaging to the beer.

It's better to put your sugar into the bottom of the vessel you are carbonating in, then siphon your beer on top of it with minimal splashing :thumb:

Does that really work out though? I did my last brew by sugaring the bottles and pouring the beer on top, and it sat there as a sludge unless I shook the bottle up to mix it in.. It could be the whole 'corn sugar vs white sugar' argument again though.. The corn sugar would probably just melt in on contact as it's finely ground, but the white sugar needs a bit of persuasion to dissolve.

Corn sugar is the US term for dextrose. Its pretty much just brewing sugar. Appearance wise it may dissolve easier, but what you really want to be doing is dissolving any priming solution before hand anyway. Sorry, should have made that clearer.

Boil a small amount of water, pout it into a a cup, add the sugar then mix until it all dissolves.
Pour this into your keg and then siphon on top of this. The action of the beer swirling into the priming mixture should be sufficient to mix the priming mixture throughout the liquid.

For bottles, do the same except pour the mixture into either a sanitized bottling bucket, and siphon into that, or if you prefer pour straight into your bottles and siphon into them individually.
For bottles it's recommended to gently invert each bottle a couple of times after sealing, like you would with a soda stream.

remember to let the priming solution cool a little before siphoning on top of it though.
Hope that helps.

Bottling takes ages in comparison, so that's one advantage of kegs over bottles.

I used to be of the same persuasion until my last brew. I did 6 bottles with the intention of giving them out to friends and family for improvement ideas, then kegged the remaining beer. Was firmly of the stance that the bottles were an unnecessarily faffy inconvenience compared to keg.
All of the process was done at the same time and identical, including sanitization.
The bottles were beautiful, however the keg never carbonated, meaning a whole 33pints (ish) fell foul

The trouble with kegs is that if there's a problem, it affects all of your beer, as opposed to 500ml(ish) of it.

 

[fbsf]

Once you get your bottling process sorted, it isn't so bad. Granted it's more faff than kegging, but I just find I prefer the taste of my bottled beers, to the point that my corny setup has just gone to a mate...

It's a lot easier to get a bottle carrier than it is to take a whole keg...

 

[MarkCL]

For bottles, do the same except pour the mixture into either a sanitized bottling bucket, and siphon into that, or if you prefer pour straight into your bottles and siphon into them individually.

Quick question re this - how much mixture should you then use in each bottle? At least when adding sugar it says either use a half or full teaspoon per bottle for example, but how much if you create a primer liquid? :wha: I was just planning on using brewing sugar or I also read that the brew enhancer/spray malt can do the same job and also add to the overall flavour? Maybe I'll just try all three methods and see which comes out best :drink: :thumb:

Cheers,
Mark

 

[ohbeary]

Bulk prime, calculate the number of teaspoons needed and add to receiving vessel before final racking.

 

[andyakameatloaf]

For bottles, do the same except pour the mixture into either a sanitized bottling bucket, and siphon into that, or if you prefer pour straight into your bottles and siphon into them individually.

Quick question re this - how much mixture should you then use in each bottle? At least when adding sugar it says either use a half or full teaspoon per bottle for example, but how much if you create a primer liquid? :wha: I was just planning on using brewing sugar or I also read that the brew enhancer/spray malt can do the same job and also add to the overall flavour? Maybe I'll just try all three methods and see which comes out best :drink: :thumb:

Cheers,
Mark

in answer to this:
people prime with different things depending on desired effect and personal choice.
In my experience, priming with DME/Brew Enhancer will result in a LOT of sediment.
The best way to find out is to experiment, but I would recommend any fine grain sugar. Brewers sugar will work, but table sugar or caster sugar will work just as well and is cheaper. RE: amounts; as ohbeary said:

Bulk prime, calculate the number of teaspoons needed and add to receiving vessel before final racking.

The amount of priming sugar required depends on the style of beer being brewed. For example, a lager traditionally will be more carbonated than an English Bitter. There is a calculator available that will work out how much to prime with, based on what you are priming with and the style of beer. The calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

 

[Tomcat]

good link :thumb:

I use Palmers 'How To Brew' book as a guide, for 5 gallons / 23ltrs - or 48 bottles ish 3.8oz of table sugar in two cups of water, add to bottling FV and syphone beer out of fv into that the swirling action mixes it up kep syphon tube under levewl of beer so no aeration - means that no matter what the size of bottles you have the right amount of sugar in the beer so far no bombs and no flat bottles :)

 

[andyakameatloaf]

good link :thumb:

I use Palmers 'How To Brew' book as a guide, for 5 gallons / 23ltrs - or 48 bottles ish 3.8oz of table sugar in two cups of water, add to bottling FV and syphone beer out of fv into that the swirling action mixes it up kep syphon tube under levewl of beer so no aeration - means that no matter what the size of bottles you have the right amount of sugar in the beer so far no bombs and no flat bottles :)

That's the one :thumb:
Yeah, Palmer's book is brilliant. Its got just about everything an aspiring homebrewer would need, although it can be a little dense and hard to read in places.