Bicarbonate of soda

[stubrewworx]

Is this ok to use for water treatment?

 

[RichardM]

Yes

 

[An Ankoù]

Why?

 

[RichardM]

Why?

It unusual, but to raise the pH if you have a dark beer with roasted grains

 

[foxy]

It unusual, but to raise the pH if you have a dark beer with roasted grains

Don't mash your specialty grains, that way you only need to treat the water for the base malts/adjuncts. Keeps water treatment fairly constant and simple.

 

[stubrewworx]

Don't mash your specialty grains, that way you only need to treat the water for the base malts/adjuncts. Keeps water treatment fairly constant and simple.

Yeah I might just do that. I like to keep things simple.

 

[peebee]

Yeap. I'd go along with @foxy but I'm not convinced there will be no implications (steeping dark grains separately or only for "n" minutes at the end of the mash), but there shouldn't be.

Otherwise, "Bicarbonate of Soda" is most certainly a better choice than "chalk" or (gawd forbid) "Baking Powder". Ideally, you'd use "Calcium Bicarbonate", but that can only exist as an inconvenient solution (in water), so "Sodium Bicarbonate" does the job.

 

[foxy]

Yeap. I'd go along with @foxy but I'm not convinced there will be no implications (steeping dark grains separately or only for "n" minutes at the end of the mash), but there shouldn't be.

Otherwise, "Bicarbonate of Soda" is most certainly a better choice than "chalk" or (gawd forbid) "Baking Powder". Ideally, you'd use "Calcium Bicarbonate", but that can only exist as an inconvenient solution (in water), so "Sodium Bicarbonate" does the job.

I knew about steeping but was inclined to agree with Gordon Strong's advice about speciality grains. What are they for? Adding body colour and flavour to a beer. He believes mashing the speciality grains, apart from making the pH a pain in the arse they lose what they were added to the recipe for.
He uses RO water when brewing as he has the worst water in the USA so maybe not for everyone, but my water is 'soft'' (had to get that in) not dissimilar to RO water, well a desal plant provides a lot of it. And as he has won the Ninkasi Award three times and is the most prominent BJCP judge it is hard not to take in what his views are. Brewing Better Beer is one of his books well worth a read.

 

[Frisp]

I knew about steeping but was inclined to agree with Gordon Strong's advice about speciality grains. What are they for? Adding body colour and flavour to a beer. He believes mashing the speciality grains, apart from making the pH a pain in the **** they lose what they were added to the recipe for.
He uses RO water when brewing as he has the worst water in the USA so maybe not for everyone, but my water is 'soft'' (had to get that in) not dissimilar to RO water, well a desal plant provides a lot of it. And as he has won the Ninkasi Award three times and is the most prominent BJCP judge it is hard not to take in what his views are. Brewing Better Beer is one of his books well worth a read.

Does he advocate steeping over adding at the end of the mash? (Edit I went and ordered the book on Amizin)

 

[foxy]

Does he advocate steeping over adding at the end of the mash? (Edit I went and ordered the book on Amizin)

No, just add at mash out.

 

[peebee]

I knew about steeping but was inclined to agree with Gordon Strong's advice about speciality grains ...

I only mentioned steeping because it's an alternative to adding at the end and because I never knew "Gordon Strong" was an advocate of "adding at the end" and therefore that was what you meant.

Unlike you I'm not a supporter of Mr Strong, as you well know! I'd strongly (!) advise against believing what he says about "water" as he comes in for a lot of stick from his own compatriots for his views on that! An early (2012, where they are still not being openly hostile) is: (Homebrew Talk Forum). The bit that made me laugh was ("AJ Delange" a very smart cookie, on brewing water especially): "Gordon is smarter than the average bear". You say he's "the most prominent BJCP judge" ... of course he is, because ... no, I'm not going to fallout with you over him again! Just be a little wary about him. Please.


I've been doing a lot with RO Water recently (and therefore desalination plants). Cor! They haven't half come-on in the past decade or two! Until very recently my ideas of it were still back in the dark age, "RO" is quite jolly stuff now. One thing I haven't tied down much (as you're a user of desalinated - RO - water), there's this "remineralisation" step it can go through (must go through, if the Alkalinity is zilch, or everyone's pipes rot) how prevalent is it and is there some "standard"? It can be seen as related to here 'cos some of the stick Mr Strong puts up with wouldn't exist if "remineralisation" were occurring.

 

[foxy]

I only mentioned steeping because it's an alternative to adding at the end and because I never knew "Gordon Strong" was an advocate of "adding at the end" and therefore that was what you meant.

Unlike you I'm not a supporter of Mr Strong, as you well know! I'd strongly (!) advise against believing what he says about "water" as he comes in for a lot of stick from his own compatriots for his views on that! An early (2012, where they are still not being openly hostile) is: (Homebrew Talk Forum). The bit that made me laugh was ("AJ Delange" a very smart cookie, on brewing water especially): "Gordon is smarter than the average bear". You say he's "the most prominent BJCP judge" ... of course he is, because ... no, I'm not going to fallout with you over him again! Just be a little wary about him. Please.


I've been doing a lot with RO Water recently (and therefore desalination plants). Cor! They haven't half come-on in the past decade or two! Until very recently my ideas of it were still back in the dark age, "RO" is quite jolly stuff now. One thing I haven't tied down much (as you're a user of desalinated - RO - water), there's this "remineralisation" step it can go through (must go through, if the Alkalinity is zilch, or everyone's pipes rot) how prevalent is it and is there some "standard"? It can be seen as related to here 'cos some of the stick Mr Strong puts up with wouldn't exist if "remineralisation" were occurring.

I have read a few threads about Gordon Strong but can't argue with his success as a home brewer. The only thing I don't understand is he never seems to add any magnesium, whereas Martin Brungard and John Palmer both suggest a dash of magnesium helps the yeast though there is enough in the grain to have no need to add any. John Palmer discusses it at length in one of his podcasts.

 

[RichardM]

I have read a few threads about Gordon Strong but can't argue with his success as a home brewer. The only thing I don't understand is he never seems to add any magnesium, whereas Martin Brungard and John Palmer both suggest a dash of magnesium helps the yeast though there is enough in the grain to have no need to add any. John Palmer discusses it at length in one of his podcasts.

I was reading "How to Brew" on a long train journey today and my recollection is that he said you don't really need to add magnesium because you get enough from the grains.
However, Brew'n'Water often says to add some.

 

[foxy]

I was reading "How to Brew" on a long train journey today and my recollection is that he said you don't really need to add magnesium because you get enough from the grains.
However, Brew'n'Water often says to add some.

That was always a belief, I worked it out once there is about 4 gram of magnesium in around 5 kg of grain. Now the thinking has changed if the water has a high calcium amount in the water then the yeast's health suffers.
About 43 minutes he speaks about magnesium.
https://beersmith.com/blog/2021/06/19/beer-brewing-water-with-john-palmer-beersmith-podcast-237/

 

[peebee]

I have read a few threads about Gordon Strong but can't argue with his success as a home brewer ...

Perhaps? Have you read that twelve-year-old thread I posted? Wasn't actually done to hi-light the issue in question ...

Its hard to argue with Gordon's success. I haven't tasted any of his dark beers and it appears that the only dark beer that propelled him to being a 3-time Ninkasi Award winner was a Schwartzbier.

"Veiled criticism"? That was Martin Brungard posting ... twelve flippin' years ago.

No, Gordon doesn't seem to use Magnesium salts, but many don't. They are unnecessary ... except that recently "Magnesium" has been thrown into the limelight ... some such ideas do evolve into valid reasons to use it, most evolve into fading non-ideas swept into a corner somewhere. Believe them or not; as you please. I generally don't*, because "nonsense" so often wins over a "eureka" and I prefer not to be left holding the nonsense.

Note, that was me almost supporting Gordon! As was my query concerning RO Water (above, post#11). Mr Strong was getting criticism for detailing pH determination of RO Water (apparently, a very unreliable task), but no-one seems concerned about this "remineralisation" step in RO Water devices, a process that will allow the pH of "RO Water" to be easily measured. Why does no-one mention it?



[* Unfortunately, I do occasionally get dragged into some of these nonsense ideas, such as "residual alkalinity" as detailed by John Palmer. I am sure he knows it's nonsense, but is he making too much money out of it to back-track his ideas? I have quickly given up on "RA", but replacing it is really, really, hard and I'm hopeful John Palmer will do us all a favour and replace the old ideas with something that works.]