BIAB question

[gazkilla]

After just over a year doing kits,I'm getting bored and after reading calumscotts excellent tut,http://thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=35233 I'm going to start getting the equipment for Biab.
Just a few questions :wha:

Is it best to start with,to do packaged AG 'kits' like the one in callums tut?
How many brews before you would consider doing one of the recipes from the top left of this page?
Do the spreadsheets start to look easier after a couple of goes? :)
Does it take alot of experience to make your own brew from scratch?

Thanks in advance

 

[gazkilla]

Also want to ask ,would you recommend electric or gas heaters?
I'll be brewing in a double garage so can do either. Is it cheaper with gas than electric or much the same?
Is it easier to control the temp with electric?

Thanks in advance

 

[LeithR]

Is it best to start with,to do packaged AG 'kits' like the one in callums tut?
I didn't but there are some excellent kits avaiable, its more expensive than BIAB AG but not a lot more expensive.
How many brews before you would consider doing one of the recipes from the top left of this page?
I don't see that this should be a show stopper, if you have the kit, the enthusiasm go for it. you may make a few errors but as long as you keep good notes you should be able to get guidance from here on what you are doing. We all like to folk having a go successful or not.
Do the spreadsheets start to look easier after a couple of goes? :)
Yes, There are clear phases in BIAB brewing.
PI didn't but hase 1 - the mash/steep phase when you are holding the wart at around 60*c with the bag insitu and the grain stirred in. All this for around 90 minutes
Phase 2 - The boil with hops and at different times towards the 90 minute mark the addition of other hops and Irish Moss etc.
Phase 3 - the quick cooling phase where you want to get the wart down to ambient temp as quickly as possible (this in order to avoid infecting the brew. You can alternatively cool over night by putting the brew into a Cube.
Phase 4 - the fermentation
Does it take alot of experience to make your own brew from scratch?
No, Even when you are following a recipe you will probably improvise by the addition of grains or hops to replace grains or hops called for in the recipe that you don't have. There are folk on here who do some really way out brewing, I have found that I am pretty conservative in the type of brews I enjoy. I'm still (after 3 years of AG but 40 years of brewing cans) pleased as punch that I can make better beer than I can buy in a pub, my family are now beginning to agree with me.

The important thing in all of this is to keep a good record of what you have done and understand what grains and hops will do for a brew including timings for the whole activity.

If you have good notes then you can repeat the recipe if you want to adopt it as a standard brew for you or use it as a starting point to modify it to take it in another direction.

To answer your second point - I use electricity but Gas offers more flexibility, I think setting up for gas is more expensive but may be cheaper on a brew by brew basis.

I've taken a very cheapskate approach to brewing in that I have got my boilers (2 of) and much of the rest of my gear from either Freecycle or my local car boot sale. I'm going to the US later this year and intend to check out the availability of gas rings with a view to trying them.

Last but not least do not dismiss kits, they are great ways of trying out the addition of particularly hops in a brew and Dry Malt Extract etc, these changes can make an enormous difference to a pretty bog standard kit.

I consider brewing as a spectrum, you can operate across the spectrum or you can specialize in a part of it.

There are some excellent books available on brewing in particularly John Palmers "How to Brew", it is available on line or a much more up to date version as a book. Also "Brew your own British Real Ale" by Graham Wheeler, there are some excellent recipe's in this book.

Good luck and most of all Have fun.

 

[gazkilla]

Thanks LeithR,thats a great post and definitely given me food for thought. :clap:

Incidentally,how long would a gas bottle last that is 4.5kg?

 

[rpt]

I started with Graham Wheeler's book and used the BIABacus spreadsheet to taylor these to my kit. Pick a few recipes you want to brew and then order a 25kg sack of pale malt plus crystal, chocolate etc and the hops needed. Don't forget the yeast - Nottingham and SO4 are a good place to start. Then after a few brews you can do your own thing. Home Brew Beer by Greg Hughes has some good recipes. I also modify the recipes to match what I've got in stock because I always change my mind between ordering a big sack of malt and brewing. This week's brew is designed specifically to use up some old chocolate malt plus target and fuggles hops so it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

[clibit]

My advice would be either buy a kit first time, or follow a recipe that is recommended, and then your main issue is to work out the water volume required, I think.

There are online water calculators which take account of grain absorption, evaporation and losses to trub/hops in the boiler. I use Brewmate recipe software which is free, easy to use, and calculates everything for a brew including water, and there is a BIAB setting. Your evaporation rate will depend on the boiler you use and length of boil, so you could test it out with water first.

Heat the water to strike temp (Brewmate tells you this. you need to enter the grain temperature), put the bag in, add the grain while stirring, adjust temp if necessary with boiling or cold water (mash temp between 63 and 70C), put the lid on and insulate. Remove bag after 60-90 minutes and allow to drain over pot. Fire up the heat as soon as the bag is lifted out, once boiling add first hops, add more hops at times indicated by recipe, switch off after 60 mins boil, cool, transfer to FV, aerate and pitch yeast. :thumb:

 

[calumscott]

Is it best to start with,to do packaged AG 'kits' like the one in callums tut?

Not necessarily. Depends on how you learn. Some people like to work it all out and take it nice and carefully, others like to get stuck in, follow some instructions and get a result first off. The former might as well build their own recipe and work out their own brewday, the latter probably better with a set of ingredients and a preprepared timetable.

How many brews before you would consider doing one of the recipes from the top left of this page?

Again, it's similar to your last question - that's down to you and confidence. If you're a confident type, get stuck in, if not build your confidence with recipes already designed for BIAB (not that there is actually much difference of course...)

Do the spreadsheets start to look easier after a couple of goes?

No - and that's why I wrote my own one. Just to make sure that I understood what was going on under the covers properly.

Does it take alot of experience to make your own brew from scratch?

No. It takes a lot of drinking experience though. The two keys to making a successful beer from the recipe though to the bottle are firstly knowing what you want to achieve then secondly knowing how to understand the advice and tips you get when you post your recipe here for critique. For an example, check out my Red Ale thread here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=50811. I knew what I wanted but had no idea how to do one properly, the guys were extremely helpful and although they have different tastes to what exactly I was wanting, their advice and guidance steered me to something that will give me a good brew as a base.

would you recommend electric or gas heaters?

Gas for me. Electricity for others. Whatever you prefer really.

Is it cheaper with gas than electric or much the same?

I can't imagine there's a hell of a lot in it TBH. Gas is cheaper per therm but you waste a lot of them up the side of the pot where lecky is more efficient. I wanted the burners for other things too though so that swayed it. Also gas burners don't burn out and you have less holes in your pot.

Is it easier to control the temp with electric?

I wouldn't have thought so. And TBH it doesn't matter. Your states of brewing BIAB are "Heat as rapidly as you can" and "Off"

Get yourself sorted for gear and ingredients, plan your day properly, post up what you are going to do (recipe and crib sheet) and we'll try to pick some holes in it and keep you right. Also make all the BIABers aware when you're actually going to do it so someone should be on hand if you get stuck. :thumb:

 

[gazkilla]

Thanks for the great replies guys, its amazing how getting more involved in the brewing process has re-ignited the passion for homebrewing again. I was doing 2 can kits though and as one poster previously said you can mess about with 1 can kits more, but BIAB seems more interesting to me.

I think I'll do that one in your tut Callum as I like to follow orders first,then tweak :)
I've ordered the Home Brewing Book by Greg Hughes,so I'll look forward to those recipes.
Will definitely post when I'm going to start one,although it'll be at least a month with both FV's full at the mo.

: Gaz

 

[calumscott]

Get Graham Wheeler's book too Gaz, bombproof recipes and loads of pub favourites. :thumb:

 

[gazkilla]

Thanks Callum,I've ordered that as well

Another question as in getting the wort out of the pot into an FV once its cooled through the tap. Do you have a burner on a stand or something similar? Only asking as I had a picture in my head of boiling the pot on a gas heater on the floor but was thinking of how to get it out through the tap into the Fv,as that would be at the same level?
1000 more questions will follow

 

[calumscott]

I BIAB on the hob Gaz. Dead easy, just a length of silicone hose like the stuff that Vossy sells attached to a quarter-turn full-bore tap via a brass elbow and a bit of 15mm copper. Just enough to go from the tap to the FV and a half turn round the bottom.

You will want to get that pot up a few feet so you can get the wort off by gravity, either that or you can use a solar pump (have a google, very impressive bit of kit) if you want everything on the same level. :thumb:

 

[tim_n]

Also want to ask ,would you recommend electric or gas heaters?
I'll be brewing in a double garage so can do either. Is it cheaper with gas than electric or much the same?
Is it easier to control the temp with electric?

Thanks in advance

Electric is more efficient and cheaper to run but the outlay is generally more expensive, especially if you're doing 5g full volume mashes with a 5.5kw element - mine cost a fair bit and I was lucky to DIY all of it with the help of qualified friends.

I added a 32A socket in the garage for the brewing, but I weld too, so it made sense. I'd recommend gas being much cheaper but I'm very satisfied with my eBIAB setup.

 

[tim_n]

Also look at biabrewer.info - they've got the biab calculator and it has a sample recipe and all the bits are available for the malt miller. I found it very good, a firm favourite and I'm looking forward to making it again and again.

 

[gazkilla]

Also look at biabrewer.info - they've got the biab calculator and it has a sample recipe and all the bits are available for the malt miller. I found it very good, a firm favourite and I'm looking forward to making it again and again.

Thanks Tim,I registered on there and downloaded the calculator. It all looks way over my head at the mo,but I'm sure it'll become clearer as brews go by :shock:

 

[Paddye]

I started by doing 2 or 3 kit brews to make sure my cleaning was up to par then I went on and did some extract ones and finally made it BIAB, I havent tried one of the recipes on this site but i did buy a clone book that gave the extract recipe as well as how to convert it to AG, I can look up the isbn number if you like?

Also want to ask ,would you recommend electric or gas heaters?
the big thing you need to be careful of (and i wasnt) is that your bag doesnt touch your heater, my bag was touching the bottom of my kettle and burnt a huge hole into its bottom on its 2nd outing.
`
I dont know if gas is cheaper than electricity, gas heats the air round the base of the pot and so can lose quite a bit of energy while the electrical element is directly inside the wort so you get a more efficiant transfer of energy that said I used gas for my biab and extract brews.

I got 4 or 5 brews out of a bottle but i always made sure there was a full one on the shelf just in case.

My pot (40L) was on an a gas burner on an old TV stand and gravity pushed it through the chiller and into the bucket.

 

[gazkilla]

I went for gas in the end Paddye and a 70 litre pot as I may go to 3 vessels in the future. :shock:

Its been like christmas here for the past few days with everything arriving and telling SWMBO I'm not spending that much :rofl:

 

[rpt]

I've never burnt a hole in my bag as I don't apply heat with it in place. I use insulation to maintain the mash temperature.

 

[Paddye]

I went for gas in the end Paddye and a 70 litre pot as I may go to 3 vessels in the future. :shock:

Its been like christmas here for the past few days with everything arriving and telling SWMBO I'm not spending that much :rofl:

we have a joint account so swmbo can see everything I spend, just spent 2.5k on a BM50l.

 

[Paddye]

I've never burnt a hole in my bag as I don't apply heat with it in place. I use insulation to maintain the mash temperature.

i was trying to be clever and do a kind of step mash but the 1300w boiler i had couldnt make the temp jump so I put the burner on, I think the pump i was using to circulate the wort between the kettle and boiler/hlt sucked the bag onto the bottom of the kettle.