Biab newbi

[clarkeuk]

Hi all
Just received my new biab peco boiler/mash kit.but all the instructions are for full on all grain ( mash, sparge, boil) it's a 23 liter kit , 5kg grain
My boiler/mash tun is 33 liters can anyone recommend how I should go about my first biab all grain
Water content
Boil off etc
Thanks in advance

 

[GHW]

Hi all
Just received my new biab peco boiler/mash kit.but all the instructions are for full on all grain ( mash, sparge, boil) it's a 23 liter kit , 5kg grain
My boiler/mash tun is 33 liters can anyone recommend how I should go about my first biab all grain
Water content
Boil off etc
Thanks in advance

As the name biab suggests you'll need a bag. Get the mash water up to 75c and put your bag in (folded down over the rim of the boiler). Add the grain to the bag/water and stir to avoid lumps. Check water is about 67c, adjust by heating (add hot water/heat, or add cold water). Leave it all in boiler, put lid on if it has one (you'll need one really for mashing). You'll then want to maintain that temp for you or mash duration. So if it's not insulated at all, chuck a double duvet over it. Check temp halfway through mash., make sure it's still at 67c.

After your mash time is up, lift out the grain bag. You might want to sparge, many biabers don't. The easy biab way is to get some water at 80c in an fv and dunk the grains in it a few times. Add this sort to the main boiler.

You can squeeze the bag to get more sort out (this won't affect the gravity) but you will get more bits of grain in the boiler and ultimately fv by doing so. I don't squeeze, or dunk, instead I drain the wort from the boiler and sparge by pouring water through the grain while it's still in he bag in the boiler (like a proper sparge)

Calculate how much water you need for mashing etc using on online biab calculator (just google that phrase).

Then once all the wort is in the boiler, your process will be as per the instructions. Add hops at times specified etc.

Hope that helps. Happy to add detail if you need and there are lots of biab folk on here who will have advice, mostly probably better than mine!

 

[GHW]

This is what I use
http://biabcalculator.com

 

[clarkeuk]

Many thanks garethhuwwilliams just checked that calculator out , just what I needed

 

[Covrich]

The reason why most BIAB don't do a sparge is because they add all the sparge water to the pot at the start so in essence start with the full volume of water. So typically about 33l of strike water straight in then add the grain and possibly mash out.. with the peco you will struggle to do that for a 23 liter batch, but you could leave the grain bag sived over the boiler and pour your sparge water over or do what Gareth suggests and do a dunk sparge.

 

[Spapro]

I have the Peco boiler and start with around 26-27litres of water in it, heated for the mash.

Once water is up to mash temp (70°C - 72°C) as it will drop a little when the grain is piled in. its easiest to then install the bag into place so its in the water but then folded over the top of the rim of the boiler with the drawstring on the outside of the boiler just under the outside lip of the boiler - then scoop/slowly pour your grains into the bag fitted in the boiler (rather than pop all your grains into the bag then install the filled bag). You can slowly (ish) feed the grain in, stirring as adding to avoid clumps - the grain should be kind of floating in the water rather than sitting in clumps so you get a good, efficient mash.

Once added the grin, pop the lid on the boiler and cover with towels, old coat, duvet etc to maintain the mash temp around 67-68°C. I mash for 1 hour.

After the mash I lift the grain bag out and dunk sparge in 3 kettlefuls of boiled water in a seperate spare FV. Then empty that wort into the boiler. Start the boil with around 27litres is my aim. topping up during the boil so I end up with 26litres post boil gives me around 22-23litres of wort in the FV at the end of the whole process (with 4-5litres of trub, hop debris etc left in the boiler).

Really worth getting a hop strainer to fit in the back of the peco tap otherwise the tap blocks and you have to jug your wort out into the FV, here is a universal strainer:
http://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.uk/hop-strainer-p-83.html

Hope this makes sense and helps a bit, good bit of kit the Peco boiler, enjoy your first brew in it.

 

[GHW]

The reason why most BIAB don't do a sparge is because they add all the sparge water to the pot at the start so in essence start with the full volume of water. So typically about 33l of strike water straight in then add the grain and possibly mash out.. with the peco you will struggle to do that for a 23 liter batch, but you could leave the grain bag sived over the boiler and pour your sparge water over or do what Gareth suggests and do a dunk sparge.

I'm not 100% convinced by the full volume/ no sparge theory. One purpose of sparging is to heat the mash and rinse out sugars by making the wort slightly less viscous/ thick. You won't get that heat effect with a full volume. Of course if efficiency is low you can compensate (for pennies) with a bit of additional grain.

I also now recirculate the first runnings to remove trub and then sparge. Takes a bit longer but does reduce the crud in the fv

 

[Covrich]

I'm not 100% convinced by the full volume/ no sparge theory. One purpose of sparging is to heat the mash and rinse out sugars by making the wort slightly less viscous/ thick. You won't get that heat effect with a full volume. Of course if efficiency is low you can compensate (for pennies) with a bit of additional grain.

I also now recirculate the first runnings to remove trub and then sparge. Takes a bit longer but does reduce the crud in the fv

You need a bigger pot for sure, many just mash out.. although many get 70% efficiency without the mash out just the big mash and boil. I think that was kind of what BIAB was for, just a big one pot for all and no need to have a seperate sparge.. I know many do /need too as they don't have the capacity (I do if using a small pot on hob)

I have been mashing out so when the mash is finished I just fire up the burner again (bag is on a stand so not touching bottom) at 75ºc I leave for 10 mins and stir before removing. I have been getting 70-72% doing it this way.. so effectively removed the need for a "separate" sparge but kind of integrated. All achieves the same thing in the end.. Many claim they get 80% doing this

I am planning on doing some water treatment which I wonder whether that improves efficiency.

 

[mereside]

I'm not 100% convinced by the full volume/ no sparge theory. One purpose of sparging is to heat the mash and rinse out sugars by making the wort slightly less viscous/ thick. You won't get that heat effect with a full volume. Of course if efficiency is low you can compensate (for pennies) with a bit of additional grain.

I also now recirculate the first runnings to remove trub and then sparge. Takes a bit longer but does reduce the crud in the fv

I was under the impression that doing a 90 min mash then raising the temps to around 75-78 whilst continued sparging does the same as sparging ?

 

[GHW]

I was under the impression that doing a 90 min mash then raising the temps to around 75-78 whilst continued sparging does the same as sparging ?

Yes, that's the mash out covrich described above. I don't bother as I'd find it hard to accurately get an even temp throughout. I guess my technique is half biab half typical mash tun set up, though I'm aware that makes no sense.

 

[Spapro]

Yes, that's the mash out covrich described above. I don't bother as I'd find it hard to accurately get an even temp throughout. I guess my technique is half biab half typical mash tun set up, though I'm aware that makes no sense.

Whatever works for you with your equipment Gareth. As long as you are hitting numbers you are happy with consistently, and brewing beer you enjoy drinking, then its all good.

 

[Covrich]

Yep whatever works.. ! :mrgreen:

If you're doing a large batch like 20-23l then getting a full biab will need a 40l + pot, and Pecos and the Ace boilers are too small for that. So a separate sparge vessel to sparge is needed.

If I make a 10l batch in my 15l pot I have to sparge seperately, either dunk or pouring water over the grains.

 

[dufresne]

I used this guide last time, worked much better than my previous effort: http://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.uk/guide-to-brewing-8-brew-in-a-bag-biab-c-58_239.html

 

[clarkeuk]

Cheers guys great response from you all
Also I'm thinking of putting the hops in a hop bag to keep down on the mess does this work ok or am I better just chucking the in

 

[Alcoholx]

Cheers guys great response from you all
Also I'm thinking of putting the hops in a hop bag to keep down on the mess does this work ok or am I better just chucking the in

thats what i do.. works just fine and negates the need for a hop filter, just dont tie the bags too tight

 

[Simonh82]

I did my first all grain brew this weekend and managed to hit 80% efficiency. This was more than I was expecting, so I will have stronger beer than expected :grin::grin:.

My method was much like others. There was 25L of water in my 30L Burco boiler. I mashed for an hour and then lifted and squeezed the bag. I then sparged with 6L of water at 75oC and squeezed it like it owed me money. This left me with 28L at the start of the boil and some to top up with along the way.

I left my hops floating free during the boil and the hop strainer attached to the tap did a great job of filtering them out. They also act as a natural filter to catch some of the cold break. If you don't have a hop strainer on the tap a bag might be a good idea.

One thing that was invaluable was the Brupacks anti-foam which I bought. A tiny spot of the stuff swirled in to the wort and my incredibly full boiler didn't look like it would ever boil over.

 

[clarkeuk]

just done a trail run with my boiler bringing it up to mash temp 67 degrees and insulating the boiler I had a 2 degree drop after 60 mins and 3 degrees after 90 mins ( 1 degree per 30 mins) is this a acceptable heat loss or do I need more insulation or turn the heater back on
thanks again

 

[clarkeuk]

I did my first all grain brew this weekend and managed to hit 80% efficiency. This was more than I was expecting, so I will have stronger beer than expected :grin::grin:.

My method was much like others. There was 25L of water in my 30L Burco boiler. I mashed for an hour and then lifted and squeezed the bag. I then sparged with 6L of water at 75oC and squeezed it like it owed me money. This left me with 28L at the start of the boil and some to top up with along the way.

I left my hops floating free during the boil and the hop strainer attached to the tap did a great job of filtering them out. They also act as a natural filter to catch some of the cold break. If you don't have a hop strainer on the tap a bag might be a good idea.

One thing that was invaluable was the Brupacks anti-foam which I bought. A tiny spot of the stuff swirled in to the wort and my incredibly full boiler didn't look like it would ever boil over.

how do you work out your efficiency simonh82

 

[Spapro]

just done a trail run with my boiler bringing it up to mash temp 67 degrees and insulating the boiler I had a 2 degree drop after 60 mins and 3 degrees after 90 mins ( 1 degree per 30 mins) is this a acceptable heat loss or do I need more insulation or turn the heater back on
thanks again

That is absolutely fine, adding another coat/duvet over the top may reduce that loss a little but no problem just running with 2 degree drop over 60 mins at all.

When using grain you will need to heat your water a little higher, say 70-72°C, adding the grain (which will be at its stored temperature will reduce the temp of the water). I heat the water to 72°C, add the bag around the top of the boiler, spoon in and stir the grain and then my mash has a starting temp of 67-68°C - so lose around 4°C by adding the grain.

Don't worry at this stage about measuring efficiency - brew to a recipe and see if you hit the starting gravity, as long as you are close then all is good and you can measure/work on efficiency if required for future brews. Do the process right (and it sounds like you will) and your efficiency should take care of itself to a large degree.

Good luck with it and try and enjoy it - are you brewing this weekend ?

 

[Tony1951]

That is absolutely fine, adding another coat/duvet over the top may reduce that loss a little but no problem just running with 2 degree drop over 60 mins at all.

When using grain you will need to heat your water a little higher, say 70-72°C, adding the grain (which will be at its stored temperature will reduce the temp of the water). I heat the water to 72°C, add the bag around the top of the boiler, spoon in and stir the grain and then my mash has a starting temp of 67-68°C - so lose around 4°C by adding the grain.

I've started measuring the temperature of the grain and using a strike temperature calculator so that I can achieve the mash temperature that I want.

If you have accurately measured the weight of the grain, the volume of the mash water and the temperature of the grain, you can target an exact mash temperature and get pretty near it in the mash tun.

Depending where my grain has been stored, it has been at 22C and 14C in the last few weeks. That makes a heck of a difference to mash temperature if you always start with mash water at a certain level. I've been making IPAs lately and they need 6kg in 15 litres. If the grain is cold, that can make a big difference to the result.

This calculator works, but there are others on the web.

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/calc.html