Best Star SAN Alternative including all new Chemsan

[Banbeer]

I use Videne no rinse, I buy it from Tesco chemists(have to order tho')

 

[Ghillie]

I wonder if anyone can be arsed to wait for it to fully dry? I know I cant

Ditto. But weird how it’s in the tech data sheet. Won’t be changing my approach anytime soon, but would like to hear what the guys behind the product have to say about it...

 

[simon12]

If you are going to rinse it anyway can't you just use any anti bacterial cleaner?

 

[foxy]

Ditto. But weird how it’s in the tech data sheet. Won’t be changing my approach anytime soon, but would like to hear what the guys behind the product have to say about it...

Its the guys behind the product that wrote the tech sheet, Dodecylbenzine sulfonic acid is toxic if swallowed. I know it is diluted, if so many folk are not letting it dry what is their approach to following the instructions on dilution rates? I am just particular what goes into my beer.

 

[LeeH]

It has no ill effects and is stated by FS that the phosphates in it are beneficial to yeast during fermentation.

 

[strange-steve]

I am just particular what goes into my beer.

Seems an odd think to say, almost like you're suggesting those who don't let starsan air dry are less particular?

Dodecylbenzine sulfonic acid is toxic if swallowed. I know it is diluted

You acknowledge that it's diluted, but anything can be toxic in high enough concentration. What is the safe concentration of dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid?

How particular are you about ethanol content?

 

[Ghillie]

Its the guys behind the product that wrote the tech sheet

I know bud, I wasn’t disputing that.

 

[foxy]

It has no ill effects and is stated by FS that the phosphates in it are beneficial to yeast during fermentation.

No one is questioning the phosphoric acid, its the surfactant I am uneasy with.

Seems an odd think to say, almost like you're suggesting those who don't let starsan air dry are less particular?

You acknowledge that it's diluted, but anything can be toxic in high enough concentration. What is the safe concentration of dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid?

How particular are you about ethanol content?

All I am suggesting is instructions aren't followed, they are there for a reason. As I said I use Proxitane, the only time I use anything with dodeccylbenzenesulfonic acid in it is when I use household cleaners and insecticides.

I wouldn't know what concentrations are unsafe, thats one of the reasons I use Proxitane.
Not particular at all about ethanol being a group 1 carcinogen as I have prescribed it for myself in making the beer, I just don't want to turn my beer into what could be a cocktail of carcinogens.

 

[Ghillie]

@foxy, are you a millennial?

 

[LeeH]

I’d just give up making beer, sounds far to risky to me.

 

[strange-steve]

I wouldn't know what concentrations are unsafe, thats one of the reasons I use Proxitane.
...
I just don't want to turn my beer into what could be a cocktail of carcinogens.

How much Star San is actually going to end up in the beer? If there was 100ml in 20L of beer, at the recommended dilution rate there will be 11ppb of DBS acid. For reference the acceptable threshold of arsenic and lead in drinking water is 10ppb. I'd be much more concerned about the ethanol.

 

[Rodcx500z]

No one is questioning the phosphoric acid, its the surfactant I am uneasy with.

All I am suggesting is instructions aren't followed, they are there for a reason. As I said I use Proxitane, the only time I use anything with dodeccylbenzenesulfonic acid in it is when I use household cleaners and insecticides.

I wouldn't know what concentrations are unsafe, thats one of the reasons I use Proxitane.
Not particular at all about ethanol being a group 1 carcinogen as I have prescribed it for myself in making the beer, I just don't want to turn my beer into what could be a cocktail of carcinogens.

Foxy I wouldn't worry to much about what the experts in healthy living say, we all listened to them in the 80s don't eat this don't do that fats very bad for you, use this spread low fat this and that, it's now emerging these experts were talking bollocks and it's detrimental to your health, they have to justifie why they get paid big money, anti biotics is a prime example half of them don't work anymore, when I was a kid growing up there was none of the chemical cleaners we have now, and did you know all 5 of the main ingredients in sun cream are carcigenic and every time we use it they absorbed through your skin, think I need a beer now

 

[BarryC]

Well I'm really confused now the US Brewing guys mantra has always been " Don't fear the Foam !" - Even in John Palmers book How to Brew ( page 35 ) he states " Even though there can be huge amount of foam in vessels like carboys after draining it will have no effect on fermentation or flavour" - Thoughts anyone ?
I'd be interested to know why its unavailable in the UK ? Has the EU thrown another Hissy-it and banned it ??

 

[foxbat]

Has the EU thrown another Hissy-it and banned it ??

They haven't banned it but they have introduced registration rules that whomever it is that needs to complete them has not yet done so. Here's the best post I've seen so far that dispels the nonsense rumours floating around:

https://ms-my.facebook.com/TheHomeB...ts-reports-etc-aboutfive-st/2719335838096217/

 

[BarryC]

They haven't banned it but they have introduced registration rules that whomever it is that needs to complete them has not yet done so. Here's the best post I've seen so far that dispels the nonsense rumours floating around:

https://ms-my.facebook.com/TheHomeB...ts-reports-etc-aboutfive-st/2719335838096217/

Thanks Foxbat ! That explains the availability issues !

 

[Clint]

My works is like a pirate convention... everything is covered with skull and crossbones...the beer washes it away...

 

[foxy]

How much Star San is actually going to end up in the beer? If there was 100ml in 20L of beer, at the recommended dilution rate there will be 11ppb of DBS acid. For reference the acceptable threshold of arsenic and lead in drinking water is 10ppb. I'd be much more concerned about the ethanol.

If you are concerned about the ethanol don't drink. The way I look at it is this, (using cancer as an example) betting odds on getting cancer is even money in males with females not far behind. We know that ethanol is a group 1 carcinogen, as is red meat put on the barby, I enjoy beer and a nice rib eye probably lots of other things which cause some terminal disease or other, because I am willing to take the risk. I will decline taking any risk when it isn't necessary. DDBSA wouldn't get within a bulls roar of food in the European Union, Star San got a decision to market it from the FDA but it wasn't unanimous.
In July this year FDA banned DDBSA from being used on bulk milk carriers, but allowed it to be used in milk and beverage bottles as long as the bottles are air dried, is it biodegradable, yes it is but it takes 28 days in an aerobic environment, 42 days in an anaerobic environment.
I would suggest if using Star San or one of the many clones, sterilise the bottles or kegs the day before, they will still be sterile after drying or use proxitane for peace of mind.
Even though they spray fruit and vegetables in USA with lactic acid and DDBSA the presence of DDBSA is 1.23% and it must be allowed to air dry before consumption.

 

[MrRock]

According to their product tech sheet it has to dry.

I think it depends on how you read it:

For all applications, allow to air dry

That could be interpreted to mean if you want it to dry then let it air dry rather than use a towel or whatever.

 

[strange-steve]

It's calculated risk isn't it. Really I'm not too concerned about the risk from ethanol, and even less so the miniscule amount of DBS acid that might be in there.

 

[MyQul]

My works is like a pirate convention... everything is covered with skull and crossbones...the beer washes it away...

Har, Har, Jim lad