Best place to get curved heating elements

[WonderOnesBrewing]

Hi all,

I just wanted to get some advice on where to get some curved heating elements like the following attached image.

Looking for 3kw elements.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[britton]

are these any good?

https://www.cattermoleelectrical.co.uk/products/manufacturer/burco/burco-boiler-element
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BURCO-HE...m=130950344702&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985

 

[WonderOnesBrewing]

Thanks @britton for the quick response. I am looking to mount them horizontally into a 250 litre stainless drum so was hoping to get something which would match the curve of the drum (as close as possible).

Cheers for the links though!

 

[Simonh82]

Brew Builder do a circular element but I guess it might be a bit small for a 250L drum. How large are your batches going to be in your 250L drum? Using 3KW elements on a 13A fuse is going to take a long time to heat hundreds of litres of water, even if you have a couple of them. Might you be better off getting a high power outlet that you can fit 5.5KW elements to?

 

[WonderOnesBrewing]

@Simonh82 The final batches will be about 160 to 170 litres. I was going to mount 3 x 3kw elements.

I did think about getting a higher powered feed or even 3 phase but I wanted to see if I could get everything working off normal power supplies.

 

[-Bezza-]

@Simonh82 The final batches will be about 160 to 170 litres. I was going to mount 3 x 3kw elements.

I did think about getting a higher powered feed or even 3 phase but I wanted to see if I could get everything working off normal power supplies.

Not an electrician but I think to run 9Kw of power you will need to plug into two separate 32A ring mains.

 

[Ciaran12s]

Running 2x 2.2kw elements on the one household circuit is dodgy enough for a prolonged period. After a few minutes the cables get quite warm. It would either go on fire or trip well before the hour long boil is up. I have to run each 2.2kw element off different circuit. One comes from the kitchen and the other from a separate circuit supplying an outdoor socket.

 

[peebee]

@Simonh82 The final batches will be about 160 to 170 litres. I was going to mount 3 x 3kw elements.

I did think about getting a higher powered feed or even 3 phase but I wanted to see if I could get everything working off normal power supplies.

I run 3x2kw, with the option to have a 3kw element on at the same time (occasionally). The 3x2kw is actually a single 3-phase element assembly with the elements wired in parallel. Control boxes limit the possibility of switching other high powered components on at the same time. A 45A fused circuit (with 6mm2 cabling) feeds it (noting that the main fuse for my house is only 60A - may be yours is 100A?).

What I'm doing is perhaps the limit of what I'd do on a domestic single-phase supply - that is, potentially the same as what you are thinking at 9kW. I think getting a 3-phase supply for your larger capacity is a good idea - and probably essential.

 

[Fil]

check out the ebay bendable elements..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bain-Mar...a5:m:mcrgnZli8E6_tyxXa5i4jew&var=413385342838

 

[-Bezza-]

Looking into the power a bit further and again noting that I'm not an electrician.

A ring main will, generally, be fused at 30A or 32A which would have a theoretical maximum wattage of just under 7Kw (assuming 230v).

However, if the circuit is wired with 2.5mm twin and earth, which is generally the standard, the amp rating depends on the installation and the extent to which the cable is able to disburse heat. If it's in a wall that's packed with insulation and not tacked to something that can act as a heatsink then the rating can drop to 17A which might bring you beneath 4Kw (although 21A / 4.8Kw is probably more realistic in installation scenarios). It's one thing to have hot cables between the socket and the device but completely another to have over-heating cables in the wall.

It also seems that a double wall socket is only rated at 13A meaning it can only power one 3Kw element.

To run 3 x 3Kw element of domestic mains you'd need to connect to three sockets across two ring mains at least. However, given the sustained draw on each element (unlike a normal 3Kw kettle which will turn off after a few mins once the water is boiled), Personally, I'd want to be spreading that across three rings to keep the cable temps in the wall down.

The above all assumes you have up-to-date wiring in your house. Older houses where electrics haven't been tested or updated may be considerably riskier!

 

[WonderOnesBrewing]

Great feedback! I was looking to run the three elements between 2 ring mains but I agree that it does seem to be pushing the limits and don't particularly want cables getting very hot within the walls.

Now looking into a small industrial unit with 3 phase.

3 phase elements look fun!

@Fil Thank you for the link.

 

[-Bezza-]

Now looking into a small industrial unit with 3 phase.

Or get a 10Kw generator! :tinhat:

 

[WonderOnesBrewing]

Holy shiat! I have 3 phase to the property already. Cue the purchase of an 18kw element.

 

[Ciaran12s]

Holy shiat! I have 3 phase to the property already. Cue the purchase of an 18kw element.

I was going to say that going three phase would involve quite a bit work and expense but if you've already got it then great! If you're not too hot on electrics it might be worth paying a good spark to check over your setup. That's quite a bit of power to run through a domestic setup for the typical brew. Worst case scenario is a blazing inferno...

 

[WonderOnesBrewing]

@Ciaran12s I am going nowhere near that supply! I've got an electrician coming over to take a look and quote to put a 3 phase meter in, wiring etc etc so it's still a bunch of work to do.

I have no experience with 3 phase so any recommendations, as to how it may be setup with outlets etc, would be appreciated.

 

[Ciaran12s]

@Ciaran12s I am going nowhere near that supply! I've got an electrician coming over to take a look and quote to put a 3 phase meter in, wiring etc etc so it's still a bunch of work to do.

I have no experience with 3 phase so any recommendations, as to how it may be setup with outlets etc, would be appreciated.

Glad to hear it!lol

I'm a mechanic and I've forgotten most of the the three phase electrics I learned at college. Most of the stuff I work with is three phase and a lot of that is 6kv. It's not uncommon for premises to have three phase installed but as to the price, work involved etc I'm not certain. Once you've got a three phase setup though you're best bet is to get a three phase element. Whether it'll be 220-240v or 440v I couldn't say. Maybe best seeing what the spark says and then designing your gear around what he'll able to install. I'm sure he'd be happy to advise as to what a safe setup is and what your limitations are.

 

[simon12]

Can't help with the exact question but I had a 1BBL brewery for a year on single phase which worked like this. HLT had 2 3Kw standard copper immersion heater elements 1 of which had its built in thermostat set a few degrees below the required temp so it could be switched on the night before and then the second element could be turned on for a few mins to bring it to the exact temp required while recirculating the water to make sure the temp is even. The boiler was very well insulated and had 2 3Kw copper immersion elements, 1 could hold a rolling boil but with only 2 it did take ages to get there so the second being a 6 or 9Kw would be much better or like you suggest having 3. I don't know much about 3 phase but I think one big advantage is being higher voltage you don't need as thick cables to connect the higher watts. I would also note (just for anyone wanting to run similar in a house) 3 pin plugs are good for 3Kw but its more a max than there designed for continuous use and you get 16A sockets that look like what you plug a caravan into that are more suited. Also the electrician should know exactly what you need.