Belgian breweries that use dry yeast, experiences with dry yeasts for Belgian styles, liquid snobbery, etc...

[chthon]

Do you have a link to the Dutch HBF thread on this?

Thanks for the Pannepot recipe @Rochefort - much appreciated!

Here you go!

 

[StJayJay]

Nah, definitely my bad for lighting the touchpaper. Still baffled as to why a discussion about T58 yeast turned so strange though!

I’m a bit lost there too! I had a notification from that post this morning and there’s still discussion on the topic but it’s much more cordial thank god!

 

[clib]

I've use Lalbrew Abbaye, M31, Belle Saison, M29, S-33 and T-58.

Abbaye and M31 are the ones that impressed me most for authentic Belgian style beers. Abbaye is almost certainly the Chimay strain, and can compete with the liquid Chimay and Westmalle strains, in my opinion. Good in dubbels and other darker beers.

I've had a couple of beers brewed with M41 by a mate and that was good too. I recently had Saison du Pont from a keg and it reminded me of my recent M31 batch. Which surprised me.

I really like Belle Saison but it's unusual for a saison strain. M29 I would guess is Belle Saison, but I only used it once in a fruit Saison and wasn't sure. I must try BE-134. And BE-256. M47 Abbey sounds like Abbaye, but I've not used it.

T-58 finishes a but sweet for my tooth but is good. S-33 is a fruity English strain.

So I would strongly advocate using Lallemand and MJ Belgian yeasts, I think they stand up to the liquid competition, but not necessarily for the purposes they are intended. I'm much less familiar with the Fermentis options.

 

[Kold Brygg]

Glazen Toren uses BE-134 for their Saison and Lentebier. They also have lots of BE-256 in their fridge, most likely for the Triple.

As far as I've found these dry yeast have a Belgian Origin
Fermentis WB-06 - related to wlp570 (Duvel)
Lallemand Abbaye - related to wlp500 (Chimay)
Lallemand Belle Saison - related to wlp545 (Val-Dieu)

Lallemand Belgian Wit - according til Lallemand and Siebel Institute this is of Munich origin.

Nothing found on these
Fermentis T-58
Fermentis BE-134
Fermentis BE-256 (most likely English origin) could be the same as Rochefort.

Edited due to useful information from @clib and @Northern_Brewer

 

[clib]

Glazen Toren uses BE-134 for their Saison and Lentebier. They also have lots of BE-256 in their fridge, most likely for the Triple.

As far as I've found these dry yeast have a Belgian Origin
Fermentis WB-06 - related to wlp570 (Duvel)
Lallemand Abbaye - related to wlp500 (Chimay)
Lallemand Belle Saison - related to wlp545 (Val-Dieu)
Lallemand Belgian Wit - could be related to wlp510 (Orval) og wlp530 (Westmalle)

Nothing found on these
Fermentis T-58
Fermentis BE-134
Fermentis BE-256 (most likely English origin)

Didn't know that about the Belgian Wit.

BE-256 sounds like Rochefort but no evidence for it, it just matches it for stats and flavour descriptions.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

M29 I would guess is Belle Saison.

It is.

T-58 finishes a but sweet for my tooth but is good. S-33 is a fruity English strain.

I don't understand where the idea that S-33 is Belgian came from but it's clearly closely related to Windsor and Munton ordinary, which suggests it's derived from the old EDME homebrew yeast. T-58 is a close relative of that group, so is best regarded as a Windsor/S-33 with a (weak) phenolic POF+ gene cassette.

BE-256 sounds like Rochefort but no evidence for it, it just matches it for stats and flavour descriptions.

Recent genetic work puts it in the middle of the main English brewery group, just like WLP540, so that sounds not a bad shout. After an unwelcome visit from the Wehrmacht, Chimay helped them get going again after WWII but the Chimay yeast never took to the brewery so they ended up getting a consultant in who raided the Palm yeast library, so it's plausible that Rochefort are using something that's not necessarily Belgian originally even if it has adapted to high-ABV beers there.

 

[clib]

Glazen Toren uses BE-134 for their Saison and Lentebier. They also have lots of BE-256 in their fridge, most likely for the Triple.

As far as I've found these dry yeast have a Belgian Origin
Fermentis WB-06 - related to wlp570 (Duvel)
Lallemand Abbaye - related to wlp500 (Chimay)
Lallemand Belle Saison - related to wlp545 (Val-Dieu)
Lallemand Belgian Wit - could be related to wlp510 (Orval) og wlp530 (Westmalle)

Nothing found on these
Fermentis T-58
Fermentis BE-134
Fermentis BE-256 (most likely English origin)

This suggests the Wit originates from Bavaria...

https://shop.siebelinstitute.com/munich-wheat-beer-yeast

 

[Sadfield]

Perhaps, as its widely accepted that immigrant farmers introduced hops into English brewing in the 15th century, they also brought with them another prized possession, their yeast. It would explain why many yeasts are genetically linked. And, as this happened prior to commercial brewing and considerably earlier than EDME sold a homebrew kit, all these yeasts originated from the low countries.

 

[Kold Brygg]

This suggests the Wit originates from Bavaria...

https://shop.siebelinstitute.com/munich-wheat-beer-yeast

Lallemand used to have both Munich Classic and Munich Wheat, and no Belgian Wit.

When the Munich Wheat disappeared, the Belgian Wit appeared.

The Belgian Wit could very well be the Munich in another package. Most likely it is the same, the flavor wheels are identical.

Munich Wheat

Belgian Wit

Thanks for correcting my bad research @clib

 

[thegrantickle]

Prompted by another thread on Fermentis' safale T58, I've been thinking a bit about the use of dry yeasts in Belgian beers and by Belgian breweries. There is some suggestion online - quite convincing - that Struise use T58 for Pannepot, and De Ranke use T58 blended with S33 (or maybe another Fermentis strain) for XX Bitter. Are the use of these, and other dry yeast strains more prevalent in Belgian breweries - i.e. micros that won't have their own proprietary strain - than might be obvious? Does anyone have knowledge of other Belgian micros using dry strains like these?

Castle maltings suggets the use of these strains on its webpages: CASTLE MALTING®: Beer and whisky recipes

Now, there is no doubt that the liquid cultures available are very good (I've just used one of the Wyeast strains for a Tripel myself), but I am wondering how much of the snobbery for liquid yeast (and style guidelines) in some discussions perhaps convinces some of the unsuitability of certain yeasts for certain beers (the same might be said for the use of 'candi' sugars against other sugars).

I have just brewed an XX Bitter "clone" and I used S33. I SWEAR that's the yeast they use. Comparing them side by side, the yeast profile is identical. Did exactly as he has said in his interviews - sprinkled the yeast straight into the wort at 15C. Fermented at 15C. Naturally carbonated (I keg conditioned to 2.8vol) and conditioned for 4 weeks at 15C. Dried out perfectly during conditioning. Liquid yeasts are more hastle than they're worth. The only liquid yeast I hold is a Brett culture that I've harvested from a whole bunch of bottles, stepped up and blended, and that is stored with glycerin in the freezer. I don't see why to bother with buying liquid yeasts when there are so many fantastic dried yeasts on the market.