Belgian beer, is it all it's cracked up to be?

[prog99]

It's Lambic, Sadfield, Lambic's about brewing and gueuze is about blending.
No I haven't and I do like these beers. I see both Whitelabs and Wyeast do a suitable sac/bac mix. Blending old and young lambics sounds fun. I'm off to Belgium in the Summer or Autumn so a bit of research will stop time weighing on my hands.

I'm sure you know but Cantillon is a must visit. We also got a trip round another lambic brewery in Brussels thats sadly now closed.

 

[Sadfield]

It's Lambic, Sadfield, Lambic's about brewing and gueuze is about blending.

Exactly, one can make (past participle is made) a Gueuze by blending, and brew a Lambic. Tilquin don't brew, so I couldn't have used Lambic as an example. And, I very much doubt you are drinking much Lambic outside of Belgium, more likely bottled Gueuze.

La Brocante has a good range of Gueuze. If you travel by car, I thoroughly recommend De Heeren in Liedekercke as a nice Restaurant with a fantastic beer list.

 

[MrJay83]

Yes

 

[YeastFace]

@An Ankoù's t-shirt choice this morning

I sort of agree with the sentiment, I think, but that's based on what is available here (recognise it may be different in Brittany?) Is there a range of sessionable Belgian beer on sale here? Probably not. Well there might be, but who wants to drink Jupiler? I jest, maybe Bolleke or other Spéciale Belge fit the bill?

Have you looked into Belgian Pils (not Jupiler), which seems to be a Yank thing of taking an ill-defined and probably non-existent concept and legging it? (Or maybe not, it's been a few years since I was last there)

https://beerandbrewing.com/the-everyday-pintje-searching-for-belgian-pils/

 

[Brew_DD2]

I'm sure you know but Cantillon is a must visit. We also got a trip round another lambic brewery in Brussels thats sadly now closed.

Who is that? I see 3 Fonteinen have reverted to their smaller brewhouse and output.

 

[An Ankoù]

Violence ?
I don't get it. No violence intended.


Do home brewers who think "I'd like to do a Belgian" think of Belgian pils? I don't know.


Look at the thread title. Some beers do, some beers don't. I'm astonished at the "brand loyalty" that Boulba has attracted in the UK, Sadfield and others are foaming at the mouth in indignation! I wonder what the good folk of Brussels and it's purlieus think of it. I'm going to ask them!
There's a difference between not liking a beer and thinking a beers not all it's cracked up to be. For example I like Chimay blonde/dorée but not the others from that stable. I can see and taste that they're good beers though.
TB is a "curiosity" as far as I'm concerned.
I wonder if it's worth pursuing my thoughts on other "overrated" brands, then, if it's going to offend sensibilities to such a degree.
Shame if we can't have an adult discussion.

Edit:
A year ago my fellow beer drinkers (from Lille in the North) brought us 3 cases of Westvleteren's offerings. The blonde was coarse, but exciting, the 8 was excellent, the 12 was very disappointing. These were young beers straight from the brewery and I understand they age well. Apart from a couple of gifts, they are still festering away in the cooler recesses of my garage. I'll try a 12 over the next couple of days to see whether it lives up to its reputation after a year. I sincerely hope it does.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Having visited a few counties my take of the best beers available:

1. Belgium - huge choice far more good beers than naff - avoid jupiler
(duval and kriek beers etc in a fruituur - awesome)
2. UK - Lots of crap sold here but hey beerriff, vault city, pollys etc...
3. Finland - very good for impys
4. Germany - I always go for weiss berliner weiss or dunkel...
5. Czech - lager paradise but way better than almost all uk lager - I drink dunkel here though
6. Netherlands - De molen and a couple of others are easy to get hold off
7. Austria - not many but usually a decent weiss
8. Spain - There more craft going on here thesebays but I but to search for a tidy bar last visit.
9. France - can be safer to drink wine. 3 monts - good but licorn make a couple of insipid beers - ugh
10. Switzerland - drink swiss wine instead, although barrel brewing in interlaken is brilliant , feldschlossen brewery is to be avoided
11. Italy - Wine, lots of processo to be precise.

These are purely based on the ease of being able to a good beer during our visits

As for the US? - they would probably be between Belgium and the uk. Never visited but had a brooklyn dark chocolate stout, loved stone & sixpoint & rogue.

 

[Sadfield]

Sadfield and others are foaming at the mouth in indignation!

Foam is normally lacing on the side where TB is concerned, a sign of good brewing rather than the musings of someone that doesn't like it. I'm more amused by the absurdity that you ptesented Jeff Alworths article, appreciating a great beer, as evidence that TB is something it doesn't claim to be. Focusing on a reference to YdBs love of cask rather than 'they conspire to make one of the most-compelling recent beers to come from a country already awash in them', or 'Brasserie de la Senne has managed to bring expressive yeasts and hops together in a perfect union, a harmony rarely achieved'. Then ask if Belgian beers are all they're cracked up to be.

Laughable that you need to project emotion onto other people's words to make your own argument valid, such as 'last word, above, is the ultimate sour grapes' or 'foaming at the mouth in indignation!'. Rather than present any evidence as to what makes these beers you don't like, poorly brewed.

 

[An Ankoù]

Have you looked into Belgian Pils (not Jupiler), which seems to be a Yank thing of taking an ill-defined and probably non-existent concept and legging it?

No I haven't and after reading Alworth in your link, I think I should give it a whirl.
In the supermarkets, it tends to be the mass-produced Belgians, most of the trappistes and a smattering of lindemans.
But lots are available by mail order from l'atelier des bières, an odd company who take your order and money and then you hear nothing until your beer turns up a month later. They've got a sale on so I'll order some of the stuff people have mentioned on this thread.

 

[Sadfield]

Lambiek Fabriek may be the one that's shut. Brussels Beer Project have started doing Lambic.

 

[An Ankoù]

. Then ask if Belgian beers are all they're cracked up to be.

It's deliberately contentious, but an opening for discussion rather than a condemnation of Belgian beers. If you think I'm doing that, you've missed the point. Look again at the opening post on this. But there are some, I propose, which are overrated.
Yes, I stick by the comments you highlight. Even though they were tongue in cheek. Anyway, I can hear bacon sizzling so it must be time for breakfast.

Thought for the day:
Dissing Taras Boulba is not off the same order of sin as insulting the Prophet (pbuh).

 

[An Ankoù]

8. Spain - There more craft going on here thesebays but I but to search for a tidy bar last visit.
9. France - can be safer to drink wine. 3 monts - good but licorn make a couple of insipid beers - ugh
10. Switzerland - drink swiss wine instead, although barrel brewing in interlaken is brilliant , feldschlossen brewery is to be avoided
11. Italy - Wine, lots of processo to be precise.

Spain, I only know Madrid, which I used to know very well (in 1990).
Mahou 5 estrellas used to be decent, but it seems to have disappeared in favour of clásica. There are some decent bars selling American IPA - style beers up by the metro Ópera.
French beer is generally poor. Licorne is truly mingin. Some is drinkable and some you can get used to, but I haven't discovered any excellent beer yet. I'm open to persuasion! I tend to grump about French beer with other French residents on another forum.
Switzerland is an enigma, I feel there should be good beers there and I'm still on the quest.
I had the best pint of Pilsner Urquell I've ever treated up in the hills overlooking Florence.

I had the highest hopes for beers from the Alsace region of France; Alsacien hops and German know-how, what could go wrong. I think I'm going to have to spend a long weekend in Strasbourg and have a sniff around, but the stuff that makes it up into the wilds of Brittany is truly horrible. Fischer Tradition pours a very strange colour for a (they now call it blonde) and it is difficult to get down. On the other hand, as @Clarence pointed out and demonstrated at his own cost (for once) well chilled, it makes a first-class lager and lime. But that's not really the point.

To be fair to the French, La Choulette is an excellent brewer and there are many of their beers that I enjoy immensely. Haven't seen it around these parts for quite a while, though.

 

[dave_77]

Taras Boulba bit of outlier and I love it because of that..XX Bitter is the same. I think it's the way that these beers use traditional noble hops in a way that not many other breweries do.

Looks like a American pale, bitterness is lingering almost like American pale or session IPA not really like a typical Belgian in that way. Maybe the bitterness or perception with the dryness is on the verge of being out of balance for the ABV but I love a bitter dry beer so works for me. Lemon, herbal and a little spice which I can never decide what is from the yeast or from the hops. I don't think it's particularly yeast driven but there is definitely something subtle.

I have tried to brew a clone many times but I can't get the bitterness or the hop/yeast profile that close. I have now decided that it's the interpretation of the beer that I'm after.

Recently I found myself preferring Burning Sky's New Alliance (original Collab with De la Senne ). Similar in look and mouthfeel but the hops are a combo of Celeia and Motueka .

Sorry, could talk all day about the style..I like Burning Sky's style name.. Continental Pale.

Duration's Bet The Farm is another great beer.

 

[An Ankoù]

Looks like a American pale, bitterness is lingering almost like American pale or session IPA not really like a typical Belgian in that way. Maybe the bitterness or perception with the dryness is on the verge of being out of balance for the ABV but I love a bitter dry beer so works for me. Lemon, herbal and a little spice which I can never decide what is from the yeast or from the hops. I don't think it's particularly yeast driven but there is definitely something subtle.

For me the overwhelming flavour is citronella. I hate citronella. Maybe it's a taste thing.
There's a recipe over on the candisyrup website. They were casting around trying to get the right yeast, but there's plenty of yeast in the bottled stuff. I'm not aware that they use a bottling yeast

 

[dave_77]

For me the overwhelming flavour is citronella. I hate citronella. Maybe it's a taste thing.
There's a recipe over on the candisyrup website. They were casting around trying to get the right yeast, but there's plenty of yeast in the bottled stuff. I'm not aware that they use a bottling yeast

Yeah I have read that website, cheers though. I pretty certain that the yeast in the bottle isn't their house strain. They are very protective about the yeast source and hops that they use. Sounds like the flavour profile is not for you

 

[hop-a-long]

Well there might be, but who wants to drink Jupiler? I jest, maybe Bolleke or other Spéciale Belge fit the bill?

I agree on the Jupiler, however Bolleke isn't a beer but a glasstype which is used to serve "De Koninck" in.

In Belgium just about every brewery uses it's own particular glass to serve their beer in.
Sometimes even different glasses for different beerstyles from the same brewery.
All with the intention to maximize the aroma's and flavours.

 

[hop-a-long]

It's Lambic, Sadfield, Lambic's about brewing and gueuze is about blending.
No I haven't and I do like these beers. I see both Whitelabs and Wyeast do a suitable sac/bac mix. Blending old and young lambics sounds fun. I'm off to Belgium in the Summer or Autumn so a bit of research will stop time weighing on my hands.

For your research: Don't miss out on trying Liefmans Goudenband. As far as I'm concerned the best beer this style has to offer and my go to, if I can find it!

 

[An Ankoù]

For your research: Don't miss out on trying Liefmans Goudenband. As far as I'm concerned the best beer this style has to offer and my go to, if I can find it!

Found it. It's in my trolley. Thanks.


https://www.latelierdesbieres.fr/ac...9-liefman-s-goudenband-33-cl-biere-belge.html

 

[YeastFace]

Violence ?
I don't get it. No violence intended.

It's just a phrase used when someone may make a potentially controversial statement.

(Internet slang, humorous, idiomatic) Used to express that one is firmly committed to making one's own choice(s) regardless of disapproval from others.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/I_choose_violence

 

[YeastFace]

I agree on the Jupiler, however Bolleke isn't a beer but a glasstype which is used to serve "De Koninck" in.

In Belgium just about every brewery uses it's own particular glass to serve their beer in.
Sometimes even different glasses for different beerstyles from the same brewery.
All with the intention to maximize the aroma's and flavours.

I'm not going to try and correct a Nederlender on this but haven't they rebranded so Bolleke is now the beer name too? Or is that just for export market?