Belgian 101 - An Idiot's Guide please

[Moley]

I could definitely detect sweaty socks, horse blanket and balsamic vinegar in some of Unclepumble's supposedly fine (and probably rather expensive) fruity Belgian lambics which were being circulated at the Spring Thing.

That is because the Belgian brewers have been really clever and redefined everything that is usually a flaw as a feature. This means you can never say that a Belgian beer is wrong, just that it is interesting ;-)

To tell the truth, the loony juice I have been brewing of late would put me on my back if I drank 4 grolsch bottles worth. I'm now brewing beer at somewhere between TC and wine strength. Curse those Trappist monks and their wonderful grainbills, fantastic yeasts and yummy candi sugar.

Luckyeddie: I was rather hoping you would make it along to the Spring Thing and bring along some of these Belgian brews you are producing.

On the Friday evening in particular, we were treated (if that's the right word) to a selection of fruity lambics by UP. I can honestly say that nothing has ever prepared my taste buds for an assault of that nature.

As a winemaker I am accustomed to fruity notes, but sour fruity notes with a hint of vinegar, a malty body and a head? :shock: :wha:

Love it or hate it? I really can't decide.

I think I understand the idea of Dubbels and Tripels and candi sugar and peoples who can't spell, but I would find it really helpful if LuckyEddie, LancsSteve, UP or any of the other cognoscenti could explain (in simple terms) the varieties available, what might be considered good but fairly ‘normal’ and where the Bretty yeasties kick in.

 

[unclepumble]

I could definitely detect sweaty socks, horse blanket and balsamic vinegar in some of Unclepumble's supposedly fine (and probably rather expensive) fruity Belgian lambics which were being circulated at the Spring Thing.

That is because the Belgian brewers have been really clever and redefined everything that is usually a flaw as a feature. This means you can never say that a Belgian beer is wrong, just that it is interesting ;-)

To tell the truth, the loony juice I have been brewing of late would put me on my back if I drank 4 grolsch bottles worth. I'm now brewing beer at somewhere between TC and wine strength. Curse those Trappist monks and their wonderful grainbills, fantastic yeasts and yummy candi sugar.

Luckyeddie: I was rather hoping you would make it along to the Spring Thing and bring along some of these Belgian brews you are producing.

On the Friday evening in particular, we were treated (if that's the right word) to a selection of fruity lambics by UP. I can honestly say that nothing has ever prepared my taste buds for an assault of that nature.

As a winemaker I am accustomed to fruity notes, but sour fruity notes with a hint of vinegar, a malty body and a head? :shock: :wha:

Love it or hate it? I really can't decide.

I think I understand the idea of Dubbels and Tripels and candi sugar and peoples who can't spell, but I would find it really helpful if LuckyEddie, LancsSteve, UP or any of the other cognoscenti could explain (in simple terms) the varieties available, what might be considered good but fairly ‘normal’ and where the Bretty yeasties kick in.

You were Given what is considered good Lambic wise on friday night Moley

You don't get much better than
Cantillon Gueuze
Cantillion Kriek
La Penneffoise (that was the one flavored with argene Prunes)

All spontanious fermentation beers and very unique.

First time you try the lambics is odd a bit of an assalt on the senses your not prepared for as they are so unique, however a second sitting really tells you if you like them.

All sour beers tend to be blended.

If you want to learn more listen to the Brasserie Cantillon Brewing network show it will teach you a lot.

The trappists and dubbels etc are all a little more normal, just generally bloody strong. I'm sure your going to get plenty more answers.

Thats it from me for now.

UP

 

[lancsSteve]

101
For a decent primer: http://www.beermad.org.uk/writings/belgianbeer.shtml

I'd recommend a good book though... Good Beer Guide belgian is a must-read/have if you visit.
100 belgian beers to try before you die (cheap 2nd hand on amazon) is good intro to 'the best of' http://www.amazon.co.uk/100-Belgian-Bee ... _4_rsrssi0
Michael Jackson's sublime "Great Beers of Belgium" - which crops up on amazon cheap sometimes - is written eloquently, passionately and authoritatively and really is a pleasure to read.

A quick styles analogy:

A LOT of people who eat chicken eat fast food chicken at KFC or similar: this is your Stella and Jupiler, plain bad on every front (but when you want filth nowt beats it)...

Some people like 'good' fast food like Nandos: this is your Hoegaarden and Leffe - a good introduction and points the ay towards better things but is still fast food/mass produced.

Some people want their chicken corn-fed and free range organic, but still chicken: this is your largest area of good Belgian beers: the trappists (Chimay, Rochefort, Achel, Westmalle) other 'abbey' beers (Maredsous, La Rulle Trippel), strong blondes (Duvel), hoppy - though not bitter - blondes (De Ranke XX, Poperinge Hommelbier) and a lot of other incredible variety - complex, tasty, bottle conditioned with variable Belgian 'funkiness' in their tastes but still recognisably beer...

Some people have gotten bored of chicken and want game, they like the wild taste of pheasant, partridge, woodcock : these are the beers with strong hints of wild yeast coming in like Orval which has brett added at bottling and gets brettier over time, or strange profiles like some Saisons e.g. the Vapeur saisons with lichen in...

Some people go beyond game and start eating fresh roadkill (no seriously this is a link!): this is where Belgian's go WEIRD and go into all spontaneous fermentation/wild yeasts (lambics) or 'sour' beers like Flanders Oud Red and Bruin with Rodenbach as the classic flanders red (or posh chip shop vinegar depending on your take) or duchesse de bourgougne as a more accessible flemish brown.

Brewing Belgian
If you want to get into Brewing them then I'd recommend:

Radical Brewing - Randy Mosher

And the 4 specialist books on Brewing Belgian Style from Brewers Publications:
Brew Like a Monk
Brewing with Wheat (Wit and German Weissens too)
Farmhouse Ales - Biere de Garde and Saisons
Wild Brews Lambic and Flanders Sour Ales (lunatic 3 year wild yeast brew cycles so not the most practical but a fascinating read.

 

[Moley]

You were Given what is considered good Lambic wise on friday night Moley

You don't get much better than
Cantillon Gueuze
Cantillion Kriek
La Penneffoise (that was the one flavored with argene Prunes)

Sorry Shane, I think you may have mis-read or misinterpreted my question. I fully appreciate what you shared with us on the Friday night and never even realised that drinks like that existed.

I never tried the Gueuze, but you took me straight from Leffe to the Kriek and Penneffoise, and for my uneducated palate that was just too much of a quantum leap.

Many thanks to yourself and to LancsSteve, I am interested to learn more and will follow your links.

 

[unclepumble]

Sorry Shane, I think you may have mis-read or misinterpreted my question. I fully appreciate what you shared with us on the Friday night and never even realised that drinks like that existed.

I never tried the Gueuze, but you took me straight from Leffe to the Kriek and Penneffoise, and for my uneducated palate that was just too much of a quantum leap.

Many thanks to yourself and to LancsSteve, I am interested to learn more and will follow your links.

Probably Just my writing style to be honest Moley, I wasn't trying to be pedantic, it comes natural :?

UP

 

[SamWise72]

UP, I'm reading Moley being worried that he'd come over ungrateful and might have upset you, rather than feeling you were pedantic :)

I have to say it sounds like rather an adventure!

 

[unclepumble]

It never crossed my mind that you were being ungrateful moley, I could tell by your face that you were intrigued, by the beers.

It's a great thing to share discoveries & new tastes :ugeek:

I dont get horse blanket from Brett beers though I get all the other things but no horse blanket.


UP

 

[lancsSteve]

I dont get horse blanket from Brett beers though I get all the other things but no horse blanket

Has anyone ever actually smelled a horse blanket? I never have and find it's one of those "flavour phrases" very disconnected to real experience... then again I don't fondle boars or other swine in the night so I'll defer to UP's greater knowledge of animal bedding smells ;-)

 

[Aleman]

I dont get horse blanket from Brett beers though I get all the other things but no horse blanket

Has anyone ever actually smelled a horse blanket?

Where is that Damned Hands Up Smilie?

 

[TheMumbler]

I'm fairly sure I've had pretty much the exact same exchange with AM about horse blanket.

Maybe you could bring one (or a small bit from one) to an NCBA meet at some point AM?

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

Has anyone ever actually smelled a horse blanket?

Is it worse than a wet dog??

BB :hmm:

 

[Cyclops]

The way i would make it is,
Add Ingredients
Boil with sweaty socks for 90 minutes to get the bitterness out
Steep with a horse's blanket for 20 mins
Add Chip Shop Vinegar to FV and transfer Wort into FV
Pitch Yeast

= Belgium Beer.

 

[snail59]

The way i would make it is,
Add Ingredients
Boil with sweaty socks for 90 minutes to get the bitterness out
Steep with a horse's blanket for 20 mins
Add Chip Shop Vinegar to FV and transfer Wort into FV
Pitch Yeast

= Belgium Beer.

Thats close Oakey. You dont pitch yeast with a Belgian Beer what you do is leave the wort in the loft untill it gets infected with a wild yeast....................

I have smelt Horse blanket it is like dog but with an armpity under tone :sick:

 

[Swazi]

Man 'O man I love sour beers. It took a few to get used to them though. I've tried them on many of my friends, the missus and my Dad but they just think I'm mental. UP shared some nice Cantillon Gueze with me on Sat night but it was so close to bed time for me, It might have been the last thing I had.
"Horse blanket" is one of those phrases that I view as just judging speak. I think sometimes flavours bring back memories of places and things not related to stuff we put in our mouths and we then start describing that flavour in such a way.

 

[rickthebrew]

I`m not big on the fruit / sour / bretts beers but a huge fan of wheat (german and belgium) and a huge fan of the belgium golden ales (dubbels, trippels etc) I`ve only ventured as far as stuff like chimay, duvel and other bits you can find in the supermarket - but I think i`ll treatmyself to some beers from an online supplier or shop like the stuff on UP`s thread - there is a lot of choice out there that i really want to try so any tips would be great - then i can brew some simular stuff as well :thumb:

Keep it coming

 

[Moley]

"Horse blanket" is one of those phrases that I view as just judging speak. I think sometimes flavours bring back memories of places and things not related to stuff we put in our mouths and we then start describing that flavour in such a way.

I don't think I actually originated that description, someone else made the comment and I just included it in my list.

I'd have said the thing that goes between the horse and the saddle, which can be leathery and sweaty at the same time, I think it's called a numnah.

 

[unclepumble]

"Horse blanket" is one of those phrases that I view as just judging speak. I think sometimes flavours bring back memories of places and things not related to stuff we put in our mouths and we then start describing that flavour in such a way.

I don't think I actually originated that description, someone else made the comment and I just included it in my list.

I'd have said the thing that goes between the horse and the saddle, which can be leathery and sweaty at the same time, I think it's called a numnah.

I think I refer to that as a Taint, as it aint ***** and it aint *****

UP

 

[Aleman]

I'll try and remember to bring a numnah or a saddle cloth down to a couple of meets.

Swazi (Pete) is right many of the flavours we detect are not really those flavours, but the taste/smell triggers a memory association we have had at some time, that reminds us of that particular flavour/aroma. . . . If you haven't got the memory it doesn't taste/smell the same way.

 

[TheMumbler]

I'll try and remember to bring a numnah or a saddle cloth down to a couple of meets.

Swazi (Pete) is right many of the flavours we detect are not really those flavours, but the taste/smell triggers a memory association we have had at some time, that reminds us of that particular flavour/aroma. . . . If you haven't got the memory it doesn't taste/smell the same way.

A sniff of a something horse-blankety would be great just to really know what the smell is. Strange where these hobbies lead us! I suppose the smell of a horse blanket was a more common sensory experience when the terminology for describing beers and wines evolved or were dreamt up ,or whatever. Perhaps there isn't a more urban equivalent.

There is an argument that everything that we classify is stored in terms of experience. People activate pre-motor control areas of the brain appopriate to the sport watched if they have played it, for example. Barsalou has a number of papers on this sort of thing from around 1999 (I think) to the present if anybody wants to look into the theory in more depth. Probably not... Anyway regardless of the psychology, I think it is fair to say that it is pretty much impossible to meaningfully describe a taste or smell without referring to another. My feeling is that, often you are trying to capture an aspect of a taste (but probably not the entire taste) by mentioning another. I might say that to me 5am Saint (i think - the pink one in Sainsburys) tastes a bit like a Stella with a lilt top. It doesn't really accurately describe the taste but it gives you a frame of reference assuming you've tasted Stella and lilt (tbh it might have been a bit more malty than that suggests - with a dash of Horlicks?). I may just have weird tastebuds :)

There is something of general experience in there too, as AM says: summery and words like that don't make any sense in dictionary terms for describing taste but people use them to just that.

That is my take anyway. I'd love to develop my palate a bit but it is hard to know where to start.

 

[shearclass]

I might say that to me 5am Saint (i think - the pink one in Sainsburys) tastes a bit like a Stella with a lilt top.

How dare you!