Behind The Curve (Documentary on Flat Earthers)

[jceg316]

Conspiracy theory docs are hard not to watch for me. Just fascinating. That NASA scene was when I kind of felt sorry for the guy (and the gal). Edit: and the experiment with they expensive gyroscope that disproved their theory? They totally tried to come up with some other reason. Amazing how they were read to switch gears. They also tried to keep it hush-hush from everyone earlier.

Yeah I know what you mean in terms of feeling sorry for them. I think with conspiracies like this people believe it because life is sh*tty sometimes and it's hard for them to accept that there's no reason for it. It gives them something to believe in and a reason for all the chaos.

I used to work with this woman who believed all the conspiracy theories and all the "new age" crap. She honestly believed the "people in charge" were reptilians, the illuminati controls the world, aliens had battles in North Pole bases, there was more she liked to talk about. As I got to know her I realised she'd had a difficult life, was left to raise a kid by herself and was searching for meaning in it all.

 

[marshbrewer]

As for the second point, how can you prove a negative? If Zeus never existed, how could you ever prove that?

That is very true, and it is religion's get out of jail free card. But you reference the big bang - that is, after all, a theory that cannot be proven either (yet). It's worth remembering that the 'big bang' is neither universally agreed as a theory, and those who believe it to be true don't all agree on what it is.

I'm an atheist. I'm simply saying that non of the above paragraph contains any sort of thing that can provide solace to flat earth people, because that has been totally disproved.

 

[Clint]

Would believers believe if someone popped up and said they were "god"? Or would they ask for proof?

So....would they?

 

[marshbrewer]

Don't think God is meant to be a bloke / bird. Think it's more a kind of sky fairy type of thing.

 

[DavidDetroit]

believe it because life is sh*tty sometimes

That's another good point I've seen here. There's a surprising number of insightful responses diagnosing the conspiracy theorist's condition. The best advice I got from that documentary of FE people is not to alienate them or shun them. I'll admit to resorting to ridicule as a knee-jerk response on my part. Treating them with kid gloves and sincerity and a friendly approach seems to be the better way.

 

[ChrisR73]

That is very true, and it is religion's get out of jail free card. But you reference the big bang - that is, after all, a theory that cannot be proven either (yet). It's worth remembering that the 'big bang' is neither universally agreed as a theory, and those who believe it to be true don't all agree on what it is.

I'm an atheist. I'm simply saying that non of the above paragraph contains any sort of thing that can provide solace to flat earth people, because that has been totally disproved.

Agreed, however there is quite a lot of evidence for the Big Bang - cosmic microwave background radiation and the expanding universe. Not just expansion either, but the rate of acceleration of galaxies is proportional to their proximity.

 

[ChrisR73]

The documentary said that's what his vision was and the powers that be didn't like it.

Yeah, which sounds even more like a conspiracy theory.
More likely it just didn’t work - Tesla was a great scientist but also an eccentric.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidb...to-use-earth-for-wireless-power-transfer/amp/

 

[jceg316]

That's another good point I've seen here. There's a surprising number of insightful responses diagnosing the conspiracy theorist's condition. The best advice I got from that documentary of FE people is not to alienate them or shun them. I'll admit to resorting to ridicule as a knee-jerk response on my part. Treating them with kid gloves and sincerity and a friendly approach seems to be the better way.

yeah I completely agree. I used to ridicule people or start arguments but that never works. It's better to discuss from a friendly point of view. Everyone I've met who believes in these conspiracies are decent people and it's something we can talk about. However I met one woman who thought Covid was a plan by the internet people to move human consciousness online and was very aggressive and arrogant about it. That's nothing to do with conspiracy theories though, she was just a bad person!

 

[DJDave]

Gong: Pot Head Pixies and the flying Teapot, Radio Gnome Invisible

I refer you to Bertrand Russell


"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes.

But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Russell's_Teapot

 

[dad_of_jon]

flat earth, agenda 21 anti-vax , climate change/global warming* I'm sure a venn diagram could be produced where some people believe everything and some believe nothing. As has been mentioned before believe what you like and i'm happy to discuss these things what I'd object to is someone trying to ram it down my throat.

*Here I'm referring to the increasing level of co2 in the atmosphere which had led to a greening of the planet so potentially better plant yields.

So do I make a jump and say reducing co2 is to restrict the food supply in an attempt to de-populate the planet? Is there a plan to restrict food supply in the hands of a few mega-conglomerates? Is there a link? will advanced AI lead to more robots less humans? One thing a least is certain for me. The world is one hell of a complex place too complex for any one person to understand it.

 

[Random Badger]

Good to see the celestial teapot has now entered the chat.

flat earth, agenda 21 anti-vax , climate change/global warming* I'm sure a venn diagram could be produced where some people believe everything and some believe nothing. As has been mentioned before believe what you like and i'm happy to discuss these things what I'd object to is someone trying to ram it down my throat.

*Here I'm referring to the increasing level of co2 in the atmosphere which had led to a greening of the planet so potentially better plant yields.

So do I make a jump and say reducing co2 is to restrict the food supply in an attempt to de-populate the planet? Is there a plan to restrict food supply in the hands of a few mega-conglomerates? Is there a link? will advanced AI lead to more robots less humans? One thing a least is certain for me. The world is one hell of a complex place too complex for any one person to understand it.

Not a Venn Diagram, but this chart is helpful when assessing how far down the rabbit hole someone has gone:

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Big Bang where did all the antimatter go?

 

[DavidDetroit]

Big Bang where did all the antimatter go?

I watched the video and I don't get it.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Good to see the celestial teapot has now entered the chat.



Not a Venn Diagram, but this chart is helpful when assessing how far down the rabbit hole someone has gone:

I notice flat earth and hollow earth on same section, would that be pitta bread earth?

 

[FirebladeAdam]

Neither an atheist nor a religious member can prove the existence or non existence of a, or indeed any gods. Therefore we are all agnostic. We're all forced into the same corner, making it more of a 'everybody' than 'us v them'.
Beliefs apart, we're all the same.
Apart from where proof can be evidenced. That changes everything for obvious reasons. So in the case of the flat earthers, it's clear that these people have the ability to ignore evidence, and prefer a world quite literally of their own making.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

There is or never has been any evidence that any God exists. There is only faith and stories (myths) in old books. I am not an agnostic so don't state we all are. I do not have to prove gods exist.
Read Absolute Proof by Peter James.

 

[TonyT]

N

There is or never has been any evidence that any God exists. There is only faith and stories (myths) in old books. I am not an agnostic so don't state we all are. I do not have to prove gods exist.
Read Absolute Proof by Peter James.

Your right, we don’t have to prove that gods exist, neither do we have to prove that they don’t. The onus of proof lies with the one who makes the claim. If I asserted that the earth and everything about it was created by Clangers who lived on the moon, it’s a preposterous claim, but still impossible to disprove. You could come up with all sorts of sound scientific reasons to point to it being a load of bo!!ocks but you still couldn’t disprove it. That doesn’t make you a Clangerist agnostic.

 

[Random Badger]

N

Your right, we don’t have to prove that gods exist, neither do we have to prove that they don’t. The onus of proof lies with the one who makes the claim. If I asserted that the earth and everything about it was created by Clangers who lived on the moon, it’s a preposterous claim, but still impossible to disprove. You could come up with all sorts of sound scientific reasons to point to it being a load of bo!!ocks but you still couldn’t disprove it. That doesn’t make you a Clangerist agnostic.

Hitchens's razor - essentially claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You don't need to disprove the existence of the celestial teapot.

 

[FirebladeAdam]

Being agnostic simply means we don't know... Which we don't.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Hitchens's razor - essentially claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You don't need to disprove the existence of the celestial teapot.

Surely it's Occam's Razor.