Beer tastes like ashtray?

[JB1210]

Done a good few brews now, they have been coming out great but my penultimate batch had a distinct metallic flavour, any idea where that is from? Though it was mild and i drank the lot in a week or so with a bit of help, so can live with this.
This latest batch (neipa) has a very ashtray flavour to it, its also very bitter, think i may have over done it with the bittering hops. Though the aroma and initial flavour are excellent

ibu 43
23l batch


17g magnum 60 min
50g each of amarillo, citra, jester at 90’ 10 min hop stand
50g each of amarillo, citra, jester dry hop.

pilsner 5kg
Wheat 1kg
Carapils 0.7kg
Crystal medium 0.2 kg

im using pre milled malts, stored well but maybe a couple months old in some cases.

The bottom of the grainfather was scorched with rock hard carbon after ward, though i tasted as i transfered to fermenter and never got this ash taste.

used US05 at 16.5’ for 10-12 days i think

missed target og by 4 points low

was at 1.060 og

1.010 fg

Wondering if i should try a new fermenter? anyone ever had a fermenting bucket give offtastes after too many uses, the flavours seem to develop in the fermenter i never get them pre transfer.

 

[The Baron]

Has it possibly got oxidised which is pretty common for a NEIPA, re the bittering does your brewing software allow for IBU's in what I am supposing is a whirlpool @90c for 10 mins as it will add some IBU's and if not calculated for will mislead you on the actual bittering

 

[MickDundee]

I’m not sure about your “ashtray” taste, it’s not an off-flavour I’m familiar with, but your NEIPA being bitter will be because of the 17g of Magnum for the full boil - the vast majority of NEIPA recipes I’ve seen either have a minuscule FWH addition, or no boil additions at all.

 

[Horners]

What are you packaging in?

 

[cushyno]

I ruined a batch of Vienna Lager last year with exact same taste - just like an ashtray. It's the scorching that does it.

Check out another post I wrote soon after related to scorching - Opinions please
I've never had a scorched batch since.

Remedies:

• Vorlauf until the wort is clear (...but you don't want that for your NEIPA)
• Keep the wort moving while it comes up to boiling. Either by stirring or recirculation
• Reduce the element temperature while bringing up to the boil, 60-65% should do the trick. You still get heat but less intense.

Use all three options for best results.

 

[foxbat]

The bottom of the grainfather was scorched with rock hard carbon after ward, though i tasted as i transfered to fermenter and never got this ash taste.

This is the reason for the ashtray taste. It will not go away with time I'm afraid. Always stir your wort during the ramp up to the boil. You can stop once it's hot enough that it's recirculating under its own heat.

 

[cushyno]

I find wheat and pilsner malt the worst for excess of grain particles in the wort. You have both in your grain bill.

 

[JB1210]

Kegging. Try to take extra care not to oxidse too ie, purge keg etc

tastes are present before kegging.

Software does take the hop stand into account,

17ibu from magnum
25ibu from hop stand

using counterflow chiller, which i suppose increases the hop stand length, transfer takes ages and kettle worttemp is only slowly dropping. I might consider spider in future to avoid this potential.

but yeh i think i made a mess of the recipe design by putting too much bitterness fwh addition in. Anyone ever remember the taste of an overly bitter beer? Iv been mixing this stuff about 80/20 budlight/neipa and it tastes excellent (still strong hop aroma at this highly diluted level) so no dramas but just interested to know and not do this again.

thanks for the advice

 

[MickDundee]

Kegging. Try to take extra care not to oxidse too ie, purge keg etc

tastes are present before kegging.

Software does take the hop stand into account,

17ibu from magnum
25ibu from hop stand

using counterflow chiller, which i suppose increases the hop stand length, transfer takes ages and kettle worttemp is only slowly dropping. I might consider spider in future to avoid this potential.

but yeh i think i made a mess of the recipe design by putting too much bitterness fwh addition in. Anyone ever remember the taste of an overly bitter beer? Iv been mixing this stuff about 80/20 budlight/neipa and it tastes excellent (still strong hop aroma at this highly diluted level) so no dramas but just interested to know and not do this again.

thanks for the advice

What AA% is your Magnum? The pack I’m using up at the moment is 12.5% which gives 29IBU for 17g not 17IBU.

 

[The Baron]

I think you have the wrong IBU's for the magnum in a 60 min boil its way more than 17?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I think I know what you mean about an 'ashtray' flavour - not good...

 

[JB1210]

What AA% is your Magnum? The pack I’m using up at the moment is 12.5% which gives 29IBU for 17g not 17IBU.

10.7aa which in the grainfather app translates to 17ibu

i was a bit dubious to these calcs on the brew day tbh, as the estimated ibu from the similar alpha acid hops at hop stand seemed to give greatly differing ibu counts.

perhaps ive encountered a bug here in the app, possibly as i messed around translating an existing recipe to the final one i have shown here.

Any suggestions on a brew calculator which i could at least cross refernce with, i really like the gf app so far,

 

[IainM]

I've had an ashtray taste and it was from scorching. Solved the scorching and never had that problem since.

 

[JB1210]

So just made a couple of test batches on brewfather and the grain father app, and yes the ibu from 17g of magnum at 10.7 comes out at around 30 on all apps but once the fermentables are added this is reduced to 17/18ish ibus on all. Does this still sound incorrect.

 

[MickDundee]

So just made a couple of test batches on brewfather and the grain father app, and yes the ibu from 17g of magnum at 10.7 comes out at around 30 on all apps but once the fermentables are added this is reduced to 17/18ish ibus on all. Does this still sound incorrect.

I use Brewers Friend and, using my Helles recipe it gives me 25.16IBUs for a 60min addition at 10.7AAU, so there’s a bit of a discrepancy somewhere.

 

[JB1210]

Update: anyone interested, anyone searching forums with the same issue, the beer has now come good. Havent tasted for two week, had a couple over the last few days, still kind of got the same taste at first but now it actually tastes pretty good.

Im guessing the issue was that it was scorched and the scorched hop residue has now dropped, and now that im not picking up any scorched trub from the bottom of the keg the ash tray flavour has subsided pretty much completely. So give it a few week, maybe some gelatine before you dump a potentially scorched batch. In this case it came good.

 

[cushyno]

You've been fortunate. Maybe it was only slightly scorched. I recall my scorched Vienna lager still tasting the same after a couple of months.

 

[BlackRegent]

You've been fortunate. Maybe it was only slightly scorched. I recall my scorched Vienna lager still tasting the same after a couple of months.

You're making me nervous. My last brew was a Munich Helles and I managed to scorch the element for the first time. It's in the final stages of fermentation and I'll be mightily narked if I've ruined it. I might have to draw off a sample and check

EDIT - tastes like ashtray!