Beer starter kits with pressure barrel vs those without

[Wackford Squeers]

Hi,
I'm still looking for a beer starter kit, and I've noticed after a bit of looking that broadly, at least at the beginners' end, they seem to fall into two categories:
a) those that come with a pressure barrel, either with or without (PET) bottles. I can't post urls to provide examples.
b) those that come without a pressure barrel but which come with PET bottles -the popular Coopers and Brewbuddy kits seems to be an example of this type. I can't post urls to provide examples.

Could somebody please explain in simple terms, what the consequences of buying one type over the other are? Why does one need a pressure barrel - is it to brew non-lager beers? Please, I need some help here - this is for my dad and I don't want him to be limited to brewing one type of beer eg lager (if buying a Coopers/Brewbuddy kit without a pressure barrel) or ale (if buying a kit with a pressure barrel).

Many thanks in advance.

 

[droche]

If you want your beer fizzy then go for the bottles as the barrels don't hold enough pressure to carbonate beer. If you want a pub style bitter then go for the barrel. Hope that helps.

:

 

[chojo]

As far as i'm aware and i speak as a relative newbie to brewing, it's down to personal choice although i have read that lagers do carbonate better in bottles. Having said that i now only use bottles as all my experiences with barrels have lead to flat beer i've even lashed out on king kegs as the ones you get with the kits tend to be a bit naff, still flat beer. However some people swear by them and will use nothing else. For me i like the convenience of bottles as you can just pop a couple in the fridge whenever you want, a little hard to do that with a keg. I'd think about where your dad will keep a keg first and if it's outside will he want to keep going out every time he fancies a pint? Or is he happy to say fill a jug to last him the night and maybe have a flat pint at the end of the night?
As i say i think it's personal choice but wait and see what some more experienced brewers say before making your mind up.

 

[Wackford Squeers]

Thanks very much guys for your replies. It seems then a bit counter-intuitive: you'd imagine (perhaps) as a newbie that the kits with the pressure barrel are more advanced ("wooh! pressure barrel!") and therefore "better" but it seems from what you're saying that they are definitely not better suited - to lagers at least. So it seems clear that non-pressure barrel (presumably that means instead bottle conditioning?) for lagers is the way to go.
If he wants to make an ale, or a bitter, which are presumably less carbonated than lagers (sorry, my own beer knowledge is terrible) then is the pressure barrel of equally little merit or use? I.e. would you advocate bottle conditioning/carbonation/whatever for non-lager beers?

 

[droche]

If you think he will mainly brew lager then I would definitely go for the bottles because it will carbonate in the bottle and be fizzy when poured (if left long enough to condition). I prefer bitter which in my opinion tastes wrong if it is fizzy. If you go to a pub and buy a pint of bitter it's not fizzy but still has a head and tastes good ( I mean real ale obviously not the smooth flow rubbish)
So if it's lager I'd recommend bottles, bitter in my opinion is better from a barrel.

:

 

[chojo]

Thanks very much guys for your replies. It seems then a bit counter-intuitive: you'd imagine (perhaps) as a newbie that the kits with the pressure barrel are more advanced ("wooh! pressure barrel!") and therefore "better" but it seems from what you're saying that they are definitely not better suited - to lagers at least. So it seems clear that non-pressure barrel (presumably that means instead bottle conditioning?) for lagers is the way to go.
If he wants to make an ale, or a bitter, which are presumably less carbonated than lagers (sorry, my own beer knowledge is terrible) then is the pressure barrel of equally little merit or use? I.e. would you advocate bottle conditioning/carbonation/whatever for non-lager beers?

Again mate it's personal choice, it really depends on what the brewer prefers to drink if it's lager then yes i would advocate bottles but i also prefer bottle conditioned ales. However i certainly would never say "don't use barrels they're ****" as you said it's for your dad and i know my dad god rest his soul always preferred his home brew from a barrel. So think about him and what he likes consider the practicalities i mentioned before and then decide what's best for him. Sorry i can't give you a definitive answer.

 

[mickthetrick]

if your going to brew bitters, ales or stouts, a keg is the way to go imo. you could easily save up some bottles for free to use.
i've kegged and bottled and i much prefer the kegged brew. personal preference i know but i think bitters, ales, stouts just taste that much better from a keg.
each to their own though :thumb:

 

[jondread]

I hope I can help here, but I'm fairly inexperienced myself so I will just share my own personal opinion. From what I've read, ales are much better kegged. I did a lager/bitter a couple of months ago and whilst it was good in the keg, it seems to be better bottled, shoved in a cold cellar for months and then dug out on a summers day in 6 months time.

As for kits, I don't know if there are any which sell plastic bottles with them other than the Coopers kit, but I would stay away from plastic bottles if you can help it. You should be able to pick up bottles fairly cheaply at a local homebrew store, I can get 15 pint sized for about £8, or even better, go out and buy a bunch of commercial beers and recycle the bottles!?

If you're looking to make ales, then here is a link to a starter kit which I have found, http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... ml#a102694 they also include a Woodfordes beer kit with this one too.

I've decided that I prefer to drink my beers straight from the tap, but bottles are always handy, and what I usually do now is keg 20 pints and bottle 20 pints.

Hope this can be of some use :)

 

[GavH]

what I usually do now is keg 20 pints and bottle 20 pints.

JD, How many CO2 carts - if any - would you squirt into the keg after filling it with 20 pints or do you not bother? I've just used my new keg for the first time and put the entire batch into the keg. I didn't give it any CO2 as I expect the headspace in the KK will be taken up by the CO2 being produced by the secondary fermentation. Was I right or wrong?

 

[jondread]

what I usually do now is keg 20 pints and bottle 20 pints.

JD, How many CO2 carts - if any - would you squirt into the keg after filling it with 20 pints or do you not bother? I've just used my new keg for the first time and put the entire batch into the keg. I didn't give it any CO2 as I expect the headspace in the KK will be taken up by the CO2 being produced by the secondary fermentation. Was I right or wrong?

Well I'd say that if you're filling a 40 pint keg with only 20 pints then you'll have quite a large headspace at the top so I would probably just inject one 8gram cartridge into it. Although saying that, I should think it would depend on how much priming sugar you used for your keg and how much co2 in generated naturally (I guess all beers are different and will produce different amounts of co2) as I had half a 40 pint keg half full in September -with a Wilko Hoppy Copper Bitter, 20tsps of sugar to prime - and I had to release some pressure in it as the natural co2 buildup was so high it had started to leak beer.

The last two brews I did I filled the kegs right to the top with a little bit of head space and I didn't bother with injecting any co2, I just mainly use that to top up co2 levels after the pressure has dropped after drinking a few pints. So yeah I should think that secondary fermentation would generate enough co2 to replace the headspace.

 

[Wackford Squeers]

Wow, thanks guys for all the responses - much appreciated.
Sensibly some of you say it depends on what he drinks or wants to brew; but he drinks both lagers and ales and stuff like Leffe (not sure what category that falls into), and I have no idea which he would want to brew; reasonably he might want to try his hand at many different types (at least I'd like to think so; he's retired so Lord knows he has the time :)).
So, if I get him a pressure keg kit, can I just buy a load of bottles separately, and then he's good to go, whichever type of beer he wants to try his hand at? I.e., it gives more flexibility to get a pressure keg kit plus bottles? I'd like not to confine him to one type of beer and he's really technophobic so I shouldn't/don't expect him to have to root around on the net to get extra equipment, at least in the early days.

Many thanks again.

 

[Drunken Horse]

You can get smaller kegs (around 2 gallons) so you can Keg some and bottle some. They are almost the same price as a full size keg but would give you the best of both worlds.

I plan on getting one because I get bored bottling

 

[Wackford Squeers]

You can get smaller kegs (around 2 gallons) so you can Keg some and bottle some. They are almost the same price as a full size keg but would give you the best of both worlds.

I plan on getting one because I get bored bottling

Interesting idea, thanks.

 

[Wackford Squeers]

I hope I can help here, but I'm fairly inexperienced myself so I will just share my own personal opinion. From what I've read, ales are much better kegged. I did a lager/bitter a couple of months ago and whilst it was good in the keg, it seems to be better bottled, shoved in a cold cellar for months and then dug out on a summers day in 6 months time.

As for kits, I don't know if there are any which sell plastic bottles with them other than the Coopers kit, but I would stay away from plastic bottles if you can help it. You should be able to pick up bottles fairly cheaply at a local homebrew store, I can get 15 pint sized for about £8, or even better, go out and buy a bunch of commercial beers and recycle the bottles!?

If you're looking to make ales, then here is a link to a starter kit which I have found, http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... ml#a102694 they also include a Woodfordes beer kit with this one too.

I've decided that I prefer to drink my beers straight from the tap, but bottles are always handy, and what I usually do now is keg 20 pints and bottle 20 pints.

Hope this can be of some use :)

Thanks for that Jon. I did see that some time back (wanted to link to it but couldn't) and figured it looked much better value than the Coopers kit, which seems to have a price premium built into it, maybe because it's been going so long; I was just confused as to whether it (the Woodfords kit)could be used for lager. Now I think I understand you can just either use the keg, or not use the keg, as your preference (and beer) changes. I think I might get this one.

 

[GavH]

Well I'd say that if you're filling a 40 pint keg with only 20 pints then you'll have quite a large headspace at the top so I would probably just inject one 8gram cartridge into it. Although saying that, I should think it would depend on how much priming sugar you used for your keg and how much co2 in generated naturally (I guess all beers are different and will produce different amounts of co2) as I had half a 40 pint keg half full in September -with a Wilko Hoppy Copper Bitter, 20tsps of sugar to prime - and I had to release some pressure in it as the natural co2 buildup was so high it had started to leak beer.

The last two brews I did I filled the kegs right to the top with a little bit of head space and I didn't bother with injecting any co2, I just mainly use that to top up co2 levels after the pressure has dropped after drinking a few pints. So yeah I should think that secondary fermentation would generate enough co2 to replace the headspace.

Thanks for the detailed reply JD.

Just to add to the OPs choice burden and remaining on the topic of kegging some and bottling some of the same batch, has anyone used the 5 Litre mini kegs like these? http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/The_Easy_Keg_5ltr.html#.Un_EeV9FDIU Pro's and Con's to be aware of (other than the obvious fact they can't be regassed once opened)?

 

[Wackford Squeers]

Well I'd say that if you're filling a 40 pint keg with only 20 pints then you'll have quite a large headspace at the top so I would probably just inject one 8gram cartridge into it. Although saying that, I should think it would depend on how much priming sugar you used for your keg and how much co2 in generated naturally (I guess all beers are different and will produce different amounts of co2) as I had half a 40 pint keg half full in September -with a Wilko Hoppy Copper Bitter, 20tsps of sugar to prime - and I had to release some pressure in it as the natural co2 buildup was so high it had started to leak beer.

The last two brews I did I filled the kegs right to the top with a little bit of head space and I didn't bother with injecting any co2, I just mainly use that to top up co2 levels after the pressure has dropped after drinking a few pints. So yeah I should think that secondary fermentation would generate enough co2 to replace the headspace.

Thanks for the detailed reply JD.

Just to add to the OPs choice burden and remaining on the topic of kegging some and bottling some of the same batch, has anyone used the 5 Litre mini kegs like these? http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/The_Easy_Keg_5ltr.html#.Un_EeV9FDIU Pro's and Con's to be aware of (other than the obvious fact they can't be regassed once opened)?

Thanks Gav. Just wondering...if this can be treated "like a large bottle", what's the advantage over using this over the equivalent number of normal sized bottles? Seems like it would be the same as using one 5L bottle vs 10 0.5L bottles; without additional knowledge I'd imagine 10 small bottles gives more flexibility than 1 huge bottle - no?

 

[GavH]

Thanks Gav. Just wondering...if this can be treated "like a large bottle", what's the advantage over using this over the equivalent number of normal sized bottles? Seems like it would be the same as using one 5L bottle vs 10 0.5L bottles; without additional knowledge I'd imagine 10 small bottles gives more flexibility than 1 huge bottle - no?

That's what I've been thinking - ideal perhaps for taking to a friends house for example but not much advantage to be had over a pressure barrel or bottles if your going to use it in the house.

 

[rpt]

When I started brewing I had the same dilemma as to whether to get a barrel or bottles. I read so many stories of barrels failing to keep the beer carbonated that I went for bottles. I bought the Coopers PET bottles and started collecting used beer bottles. Bottling is a bit of a pain but batch priming and using a no-rinse sanitiser makes it much easier. Bottles are much more flexible than a barrel - once you start drinking from a barrel you have to top it up with CO2 before it starts sucking in air through the tap (which stales the beer). It's easier to put a bottle in the fridge. With bottles you can have a large selection of different beers to drink whereas you'd need a barrel for each one. Many brewers will keep a few bottles of a brew for months to see how it improves. You can, of course, have a barrel and bottles.

There are alternatives to pressure barrels (which is a stupid name as they don't keep much pressure) - polypins, minikegs and Cornelius kegs.

 

[Wackford Squeers]

When I started brewing I had the same dilemma as to whether to get a barrel or bottles. I read so many stories of barrels failing to keep the beer carbonated that I went for bottles. I bought the Coopers PET bottles and started collecting used beer bottles. Bottling is a bit of a pain but batch priming and using a no-rinse sanitiser makes it much easier. Bottles are much more flexible than a barrel - once you start drinking from a barrel you have to top it up with CO2 before it starts sucking in air through the tap (which stales the beer). It's easier to put a bottle in the fridge. With bottles you can have a large selection of different beers to drink whereas you'd need a barrel for each one. Many brewers will keep a few bottles of a brew for months to see how it improves. You can, of course, have a barrel and bottles.

There are alternatives to pressure barrels (which is a stupid name as they don't keep much pressure) - polypins, minikegs and Cornelius kegs.

Hi,
Thanks for this. Would you still be able to use bottles for non-lager beers (e.g. ales, bitters)?

 

[rpt]

Thanks for this. Would you still be able to use bottles for non-lager beers (e.g. ales, bitters)?

Yes. That's mostly what I brew and they are all in bottles.