Beer Kit Fermented in Corny Keg

[Jamiekid87]

Hello All

I am seeking a little advice, so I apologise in advance for a number of questions in one feed, but all advice is super valuable.

I will be doing my first kit beer in a corny keg to experiment with fermenting under pressure, I have just invested in a spunding valve to control pressure. The first beer kit I am trying is the following mangrove jacks single hopped nelson Sauvin Single Hopped Nelson Sauvin IPA - Limited Edition.

Question 1: As this kit produces 23Ltr but my corny keg is on 19ltr, is it as simple as using all the extract with my required level of liquid (would this simply result in a stronger beer or is there a way of calculating the exact amount to add?

Question 2: I have invested in a floating dip tube, but now questioning a sensible max fill line within my Conry key for example 18ltr allowing head space for the krausen and whether should I be using an anti-foaming agent to limit this further.

(I have to admit the idea of adding anything with 10% Silicone makes me a little anxious so completely open to recommendations.)

Question 3: I was looking to immediately apply pressure of 12.5 PSI, does this sound sensible or should I consider a little lower?

Appreciate any guidance and happy brewing

Many Thanks

Jamie

 

[AJA]

Routine corny fermenter here - although I'm all grain rather than kit.

1. I would just make the stronger beer. Obviously your IBUs will be slightly higher but the difference is less than 20%. You could use less in proportion, but I wouldn't like the waste

2. You can fill cornys up to the weld when you are fermenting in them. Don't go higher than this, although I haven't used defoamer. This is less than 19l, but don't know the exact amount

3. 12.5 PSI is fine. This will limit krausen and also seal the lid, which I think needs 10 PSI initially.

Couple of finer points.

a) If using a floating dip tube, make sure this actually dips below the surface. I've had issues before where they suck in gas from above instead, and needed to weight it down. I seldom use these now as they are a PITA. Easier to ditch the first pint or so with a normal tube.

b)If using a normal dip tube, these have a tendency to clog with hops. I would dry hop in bags if you are dry hopping, and the easy way to unclog these is to send gas down the beer line (using a check valve for safety). Yeast/trub do not clog these.

c) You'll probably need to clean your posts after fermenting in it if your krausen gets too high. Its a 22mm socket if you haven't got one yet.

As an aside, I think you will be surprised how little difference fermenting under this pressure makes. Avoiding oxygen ingress however is priceless.

 

[Jamiekid87]

Routine corny fermenter here - although I'm all grain rather than kit.

1. I would just make the stronger beer. Obviously your IBUs will be slightly higher but the difference is less than 20%. You could use less in proportion, but I wouldn't like the waste

2. You can fill cornys up to the weld when you are fermenting in them. Don't go higher than this, although I haven't used defoamer. This is less than 19l, but don't know the exact amount

3. 12.5 PSI is fine. This will limit krausen and also seal the lid, which I think needs 10 PSI initially.

Couple of finer points.

a) If using a floating dip tube, make sure this actually dips below the surface. I've had issues before where they suck in gas from above instead, and needed to weight it down. I seldom use these now as they are a PITA. Easier to ditch the first pint or so with a normal tube.

b)If using a normal dip tube, these have a tendency to clog with hops. I would dry hop in bags if you are dry hopping, and the easy way to unclog these is to send gas down the beer line (using a check valve for safety). Yeast/trub do not clog these.

c) You'll probably need to clean your posts after fermenting in it if your krausen gets too high. Its a 22mm socket if you haven't got one yet.

As an aside, I think you will be surprised how little difference fermenting under this pressure makes. Avoiding oxygen ingress however is priceless.

Thank you so much AJA

I do like the sound of stronger beer and must admit as a Yorkshire man the idea of waste kills me even more so when it's beer haha.

I was considering taking an inch or so off the dip tube and then closing the transfer to a secondary keg for dry hopping using the hop bag.

Do you always transfer into a second corny or have you ever risked serving it straight out of the keg you fermented to save on time etc?

 

[AJA]

Thank you so much AJA

I do like the sound of stronger beer and must admit as a Yorkshire man the idea of waste kills me even more so when it's beer haha.

I was considering taking an inch or so off the dip tube and then closing the transfer to a secondary keg for dry hopping using the hop bag.

Do you always transfer into a second corny or have you ever risked serving it straight out of the keg you fermented to save on time etc?

I dry hop in the primary corny (the only weakness in the process with respect to oxygen ingress), then transfer to a separate keg for serving. I haven't served from the fermenting vessel, but in theory there is no issues if you do this if you are not dry hopping.

 

[crowcrow]

As aja - I'm another corny fermenter. I weigh my floating dip tube down with a couple of tea spoons, keeps the tube under the beer.

I tried the normal dip tube way and it got so blocked up I had to syphon it off.

I only really pressure ferment for my 'fast lager' - as otherwise I find it easier in the bucket. If I had the space I'd get a fermzilla or similar.

 

[Jamiekid87]

I have always used a bucket, but unfortunately, my makeshift fridge/fermentor broke and the one I have picked up from gumtree doesn't fit a bucket, hence what fast-tracked my decision into corny keg fermentation lol

With Christmas approaching, I needed to change my approach. appreciate the advice

 

[Davegase]

A lot of beer kits including the mangrove jack's that you mentioned require extra fermentables ! Just reduce the amount of extra fermentables to suit the volume !
As mentioned above the ibu you will be higher !
Going forward, if the bitterness is higher than you like then choose a kit with the lower ibu, I can highly recommend the mangrove jack's New Zealand pale ale.
I'd recommend adding a filter and weight to your floating dip tube.

 

[bowesbrew]

When you make the mangrove jacks kit do you just mix in a bucket then pour in lid of corny keg then seal and let it ferment at room temp ?

 

[fluketamer]

When you make the mangrove jacks kit do you just mix in a bucket then pour in lid of corny keg then seal and let it ferment at room temp ?

Yes or just pour it in keg why the bucket?

This reminds me of dr Hans . Shake and brew.

I hate kit prices in the states for some reason over here they are like 30$ for a can then you still need fermentables. I think it’s the import shipping cost that kill kits here. Pretty sure none are made in states. I actually switched to all grain cause of the cost. Before my all grain change I figured Hans shake and brew was the closest thing I could get to the ease of kit brewing without spending the $

I also thought if I ever tried corny keg fermenting , the easiest way to do it would be with kit beer.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Pretty old thread this, and I must admit I haven't read very far back through the previous posts.
If the idea is to do the primary fermentation, conditioning and serving all from the same vessel, then I honestly think you'd be better off doing the primary in a plastic bucket and transferring off the sediment into a corny with a bit of priming sugar. Keeping the beer on the sediment for an extended period is likely to result in 'off' (meaty) flavours - and plastic buckets are cheap compared to cornies.

 

[DocAnna]

Oh an old thread but to second TETBs comments. However if committed to fermenting in the keg, something to consider is diluting your final beer down with cooled boiled water. It’s what the larger beer producers do routinely ie brew a stronger beer then dilute it. This uses less energy and more beer can be produced from smaller fermenters.

 

[Davegase]

If you are fermenting a kit in a 19lt corny under pressure you'll still need head space, so if it's a 23lt kit and you are going for 16lt the bitterness will be higher. If that doesn't suit your taste go for a kit with lower IBUs. You'll also need to reduce any extra fermentables.
You will also need to shorten the dip tube or fit a floating dip tube. You will also need a spunding valve.
If you finish the keg in a reasonable amount of time I would have no issue with it sitting on the yeast cake and there are no worries about oxidisation!
You may have trouble if you try to dry hop.
If you are going down that road you might want to watch some of Dr Hans shake'n brew content on YouTube.

 

[fluketamer]

If you are fermenting a kit in a 19lt corny under pressure you'll still need head space, so if it's a 23lt kit and you are going for 16lt the bitterness will be higher. If that doesn't suit your taste go for a kit with lower IBUs. You'll also need to reduce any extra fermentables.
You will also need to shorten the dip tube or fit a floating dip tube. You will also need a spunding valve.
If you finish the keg in a reasonable amount of time I would have no issue with it sitting on the yeast cake and there are no worries about oxidisation!
You may have trouble if you try to dry hop.
If you are going down that road you might want to watch some of Dr Hans shake'n brew content on YouTube.

exactly . no "meaty off flavors " from yeast cake autolysis . this is a classic homebrew myth. meaty off lfavors in my experience is from stressed yeast not yeast cake. a easy way to test this is to drink the liquid off of slurry that you keep in the fridge.

when i harvest cake from a batch to pitch as slurry in a future batch i always do a sniff and taste test. the ratio of yeast to liquid in a pint of harvested cake is very high (its unwashed so a lot of trub hop matter dead yeast etc - typical cake) . if it dont smell or taste like beer it goes down the drain. i am often very surprised at how good the liquid beer on top of a pint of harvest cake tastes. often much cleaner than the keg of it i just killed. obviously flat tho. yeast is good for beer. live and dead. it just depends on the circumstnace.

most homebrewers it seems drink beer very fresh. even stouts are aged for months not years. leaving it on the cake for up to a few months wont make it worse as long as no o2 is introduced. for big beers especially, months would likely only help.
i wouldnt think we as homebrewers couldn't tell the difference of beer served out of a keg that it was fermented in and left on yeast vs traditional methods. all else being the same.
just my 2 cents

 

[Davegase]

exactly . no "meaty off flavors " from yeast cake autolysis . this is a classic homebrew myth. meaty off lfavors in my experience is from stressed yeast not yeast cake. a easy way to test this is to drink the liquid off of slurry that you keep in the fridge.

when i harvest cake from a batch to pitch as slurry in a future batch i always do a sniff and taste test. the ratio of yeast to liquid in a pint of harvested cake is very high (its unwashed so a lot of trub hop matter dead yeast etc - typical cake) . if it dont smell or taste like beer it goes down the drain. i am often very surprised at how good the liquid beer on top of a pint of harvest cake tastes. often much cleaner than the keg of it i just killed. obviously flat tho. yeast is good for beer. live and dead. it just depends on the circumstnace.

most homebrewers it seems drink beer very fresh. even stouts are aged for months not years. leaving it on the cake for up to a few months wont make it worse as long as no o2 is introduced. for big beers especially, months would likely only help.
i wouldnt think we as homebrewers couldn't tell the difference of beer served out of a keg that it was fermented in and left on yeast vs traditional methods. all else being the same.
just my 2 cents

It's basically a. Very large stainless steel bottle conditioned beer

 

[Rento]

I pressure ferment in a king keg junior which is fairly similar in principle to a corny. It’s a 20l vessel and I never ferment more than 18l to be safe.

I do all grain, but wort is wort! My last pressure fermented Pilsner is sitting on the yeast cake since it went into the keg on the 10th of November. I’ve got a couple of litres left and had a pint tonight and it was lovely! So my experience says not a problem on the yeast cake and serving from the fermentation keg.

 

[bowesbrew]

Well only 10 days in got my DIY kegarator finished cold crashed for 24hrs so just had to try a pint fantastic already so just have to try and leave for a week or so now works great in corny

 

[bowesbrew]

If you are fermenting a kit in a 19lt corny under pressure you'll still need head space, so if it's a 23lt kit and you are going for 16lt the bitterness will be higher. If that doesn't suit your taste go for a kit with lower IBUs. You'll also need to reduce any extra fermentables.
You will also need to shorten the dip tube or fit a floating dip tube. You will also need a spunding valve.
If you finish the keg in a reasonable amount of time I would have no issue with it sitting on the yeast cake and there are no worries about oxidisation!
You may have trouble if you try to dry hop.
If you are going down that road you might want to watch some of Dr Hans shake'n brew content on YouTube.

Thanks for advice looks like it worked ok as was only 17 ltr kit dry hops were added straight in in a hop tube filter just pulled my first pint 10 days in .. see how it goes over the next few weeks when it clears up . Fingers crossed