Beer Engine Set Up Help

[carchie86]

Hi,

First post, so please go easy

I'm hoping somebody can advise me on how I can connect the beer engine I have acquired to a bag In box supplied by my local brewery. After doing a bit of prior research I bought some 3/8 keg beer pipe, metal hose clips, a non return valve and a Vitop connector in the belief that is all I needed.

Unfortunately the 3/8 pipe is far too narrow to connect to my beer engine and the return valve. So I'm after some advice as to what I need to get this set up so I can enjoy a nice hand pulled pint from my BIB. The pump is an old one circa 1979 made by Hi-Gene Beer Pumps, but I am assured that is in good working order. The connection to the pump measures 15mm external diameter and 12mm internal diameter so if anyone could advise me on how to get this set up and working I would really appreciate it.

Links to the equipment I bought:

Beer Engine Non Return Valve
3/8 Keg Beer Pipe

Thanks,
Chris

 

[foxy]

Hi,

First post, so please go easy

I'm hoping somebody can advise me on how I can connect the beer engine I have acquired to a bag In box supplied by my local brewery. After doing a bit of prior research I bought some 3/8 keg beer pipe, metal hose clips, a non return valve and a Vitop connector in the belief that is all I needed.

Unfortunately the 3/8 pipe is far too narrow to connect to my beer engine and the return valve. So I'm after some advice as to what I need to get this set up so I can enjoy a nice hand pulled pint from my BIB. The pump is an old one circa 1979 made by Hi-Gene Beer Pumps, but I am assured that is in good working order. The connection to the pump measures 15mm external diameter and 12mm internal diameter so if anyone could advise me on how to get this set up and working I would really appreciate it.

Links to the equipment I bought:

Beer Engine Non Return Valve
3/8 Keg Beer Pipe

Thanks,
Chris

You need reducing barbs. You got touched on that NRV but.

 

[carchie86]

Thanks for the reply Foxy, I don't suppose you or anyone else could point me in the direction of where I might find the correct sized reducing barbs?

When you say "got touched on that NRV" do mean that it is no good?

 

[foxy]

This is what you need Aliexpress if you had a look on Aliexpress for the NRV they are a lot cheaper.
US $0.87 |6mm 8mm 10mm 12mm 14mm 16mm 20mm 2 Two Way Straight Hose Barb 304 Stainless Steeel Barbed Pipe Fitting Reducer Connector|Pipe Fittings| - AliExpress

 

[peebee]

Many people use one of these: Demand valve

Sort of solves the problem as it has a 1/2" barb to pump and a 3/8" push-fit to keg/cask/whatever.

Non-return valves (aka check valves) are fine as long as there is no pressure behind the beer. Check valves were once used, but at that time they were cruder and had a high "cracking pressure". Manufacturers of check valves now aim to keep the "cracking pressure" as low as possible, including that one you've got (I've got one to test it). The result is if the beer gets just a little pressure behind it (I'm talking milli-Bars or fractions of a psi) the beer will push through the pump and end up on the floor.

Hence "demand valves" which let no beer past until the pump demands it. They are only a quid or two more expensive than the "non-return" valve you've bought.

I used to use a "non-return" valve, and learnt they are far from ideal (i.e. cr&p) the hard way!

 

[carchie86]

Thanks Peebee, that potentially seems like a good solution for me.

Have you or anyone else any advice on securing the 1/2" tubing to my pump to create a seal? I had assumed the tubing would fit over the top of the inlet but with an external diameter of 15mm, it will surely be too wide to clamp the tubing on.

I could look at the barb option but the inlet doesn't look to be threaded so I'm not certain on how the barb would secure to the pump inlet either.

 

[foxy]

Thanks Peebee, that potentially seems like a good solution for me.

Have you or anyone else any advice on securing the 1/2" tubing to my pump to create a seal? I had assumed the tubing would fit over the top of the inlet but with an external diameter of 15mm, it will surely be too wide to clamp the tubing on.

I could look at the barb option but the inlet doesn't look to be threaded so I'm not certain on how the barb would secure to the pump inlet either.

Can you post a pic of your set up thus far?

 

[carchie86]

No problem Foxy, it's all just separate bits at the minute but this is what I have...

 

[foxy]

I think you should have got 1/2 inch hose ID that is what I use on mine. Keg is different to cask.

 

[Druncan]

Aye @foxy right. I use food grade PVC dip in boiling water. Have you rebuilt it? The anti drain back velves may need a scrub and look for beerstone staining in the cylinder. I use the same brewery caustic/PAA to clean with a purple line clean every so often. Nice looking engine m8

 

[carchie86]

Thanks @Druncan, I haven't done anything with the engine yet. It definitely needs a bit of cleaning up so I will look to do that some time this week once I have worked out how to get the thing set up and working. As you can probably tell from my posts, I am totally new to this and have no experience of beer engines, serving beer or brewing at all. I love a good pint of cask ale but have always just relied on a pub to provide it to me. So I'm totally reliant on other people's knowledge and advice to get myself up and running.

@foxy with the inlet into the cylinder being 15mm external diameter and 12mm internal diameter am I still going to require some sort of barb? With a 1/2" hose I still can't quite work out how I will connect the hose to the inlet.

 

[peebee]

Here's mine:

Ah, damn, some of the pump's structure blocks view of attachment to the pump's cylinder (the white boxy thing on my pumps). But follow @Druncan's advice and warm the 1/2" hose in hot water (doesn't have to be boiling) and the hose will fit over 15mm fine (1/2" hose has a 12.7mm bore). A jubilee clip to keep it in place is no bad idea.

The "demand valves" I use have a little lever to disengage the mechanism and allow cleaning fluids to pass unimpeded. But you don't need these levers if you don't want them (they are cheaper without).

 

[peebee]

Ooo … mustn't miss the opportunity to wheel out my "treatise" on homebrew "Real Ale": https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwzEv5tRM-5EQUhZbDNPdmV1bWc. It wont make "Real Ale" buffs happy, but there is a huge difference between Pubs (cask empty in days, hours even) and a home-brewer (batch lasts for weeks).

 

[DavidHatton]

been considering a beer engine, but only for bitters and maybe pale ales, also thinking a small corny size might be suited to that real ale style, seen some around 6.5 or 9.5 litre kegs, that would only last a weekend at mine. weekend being fri,sat,sun. And only serve with natural pressure, but I am a total novice to keg serving, but seems like it would work if you drink enough, fast enough.

 

[carchie86]

Thanks for all of your help, it's really appreciated.

So just to to be sure before I go ordering, if I get some of this 1/2" PVC hose and this demand valve, I should be able to get everything connected up and working?

 

[peebee]

Your 1/2" hose will fit to your pump and the demand valve. The two should be fairly close, but I not why. Two appropriate sized jubilee clips won't go amiss (to secure the hose in place).

The 3/8" tubing you already have will push into the demand valve. It is medium density polythene (MDPE) and fairly stiff and inflexible. The other end will fit into … well I don't know! What is your beer in?

 

[carchie86]

Your 1/2" hose will fit to your pump and the demand valve. The two should be fairly close, but I not why. Two appropriate sized jubilee clips won't go amiss (to secure the hose in place).

The 3/8" tubing you already have will push into the demand valve. It is medium density polythene (MDPE) and fairly stiff and inflexible. The other end will fit into … well I don't know! What is your beer in?

The beer is in a bag in box and I have the Vitop connector, so that part is at least sorted . I know the inlet into the Vitop is too large for 3/8" tubing but I don't know if it is going to be too small to for the 1/2" hose. On first glance it looks like it might be, but I will not know until I get a 1/2" hose, unless somebody can advise.

 

[peebee]

been considering a beer engine, but only for bitters and maybe pale ales, also thinking a small corny size might be suited to that real ale style, seen some around 6.5 or 9.5 litre kegs, that would only last a weekend at mine. weekend being fri,sat,sun. And only serve with natural pressure, but I am a total novice to keg serving, but seems like it would work if you drink enough, fast enough.

You've deep pockets considering one of those half/third size Cornies. They cost a bomb!

You can get Chinese-made "mini-kegs" (2L, 5L and 10L) at a half reasonable price from various sellers. Cheapest is eBay, possible those direct from China.

Here's a two-year old piccie of a quick temporary setup using a 2L "mini-keg":

Note the "soft spile" - a disconnect crammed with cotton wool! That wasn't a great idea; despite it only being a 2L keg it wasn't finished (it was a "demo") and the disconnects were removed (equals a "hard spile"?) and keg put in a car to go home. Forgetting the airspace now contained air and the journey sloshed the beer about a bit. Treatment like that made the left overs nearly undrinkable due to oxidation. I should have stuck to using my LPG regulator and CO2 gas cylinder (better than a "breather" especially if using Corny kegs which can't generally tolerate low pressure, and certainly not negative pressure that using a "breather" may create - these mini-kegs would be okay about it though).

 

[peebee]

The beer is in a bag in box and I have the Vitop connector, so that part is at least sorted . I know the inlet into the Vitop is too large for 3/8" tubing but I don't know if it is going to be too small to for the 1/2" hose. On first glance it looks like it might be, but I will not know until I get a 1/2" hose, unless somebody can advise.

The 1/2" hose goes nowhere near your BIB. It terminates at the demand valve and the 3/8" tube is used to connect to the BIB. I don't know what adaptor you need to attach 3/8" beer-line to a "Vitop" connector, but someone here will now.

 

[DavidHatton]

yes, they cost a bomb, not purchased any of the small corny's, but have looked at the mini keg, I think the 4l & 5l would suit my weekend use perfectly.
and reasonable prices..