Beer and global warming.

[IainM]

Can you spot why "temperatures have risen faster than at any time in history"?
View attachment 9312

That's right. The Mt. Pinatubo anomaly!

BTW I'm not posting to annoy everyone. I'm just seeing if you're all awake. Having said that I take the view as a scientist that the liberals have taken GW on as a "truth" and as we are mostly aware, liberals believe you are free to have any view you wish. As long as it is the same as theirs!

Just a minute. This was prepared by someone called Randy Mann. Must be a wind up!

I'm not sure how much I can trust a graph with neither a y axis not any consistency; the arrow for the 1991 Mt. Pinatubo eruption you claim is the cause of recent warming, it doesn't even point anywhere near 1991.

There are liberals that are completely deluded about vaccines and autism, what is and isn't nutritious, the dangers of nuclear power, and how the pharmaceutical industry works. There are conservatives that are deluded into thinking the world is 6000 years old, or that global warming is some conspiracy. Honestly, on matters of science, I really don't care about peoples political orientation. Its the evidence that matters. The case for CO2 in the atmosphere causing warming is obvious to someone like me who takes a personal and professional interest in how light interacts with matter. There is all this extra energy being retained in the atmosphere. It isn't coming out again, so it has to go somewhere. I can't possibly see, from a physical perspective, where else it can go other than heating up the atmosphere. You can whittle on about solar cycles, and mountains erupting and reflecting sunlight, but it is still the case that when a telescope is pointed towards the earth, there is this big chuck of extra energy that isn't getting released because we now have a load more CO2 in our atmosphere... and this helps us make sense of the fact that temperatures are rising, that ice sheets are melting, that warm climate species are colonising regions of higher latitude and altitude, that extreme weather events are happening more frequently.

The scientific picture makes sense, but the climate change denialists positions is just confused; the earth isn't getting warmer, unless it is, in which case it isn't because of humans, unless it is, in which case it isn't a problem.

 

[Duxuk]

IainM, explain to me how if you overlay two graphs, one of historic CO2 levels and the other of historic global temp, the CO2 level doesn't lead the temp. It lags behind. To say that CO2 level causes a rise in temp. is like saying that drunkenness causes us to drink.
It's back to my first point. If you stand your lager on the bar it goes flat. It's the warming that causes the CO2 to leave the liquid. Not the CO2 leaving the liquid which causes the warming. Simple science. I used to sell spectrophotometers. I might even know something.
Now we do have elevated CO2 levels due to industrialisation, but it won't change the order in which things happen. We're in a long term period of warming. Let's just hope that the elevated CO2 level absorbs enough solar energy to the emit it back into space and keep the level of warming down. The sun is a massive source of radiation so it's intuitively obvious that "greenhouse gases" will have a protecting effect, not a heating effect. If they have any effect at all bearing in mind the low concentrations, and tiny significance compared to water vapour.
Better go now. I left a lager on the bar. Don't want it going flat.

 

[IainM]

IainM, explain to me how if you overlay two graphs, one of historic CO2 levels and the other of historic global temp, the CO2 level doesn't lead the temp. It lags behind. To say that CO2 level causes a rise in temp. is like saying that drunkenness causes us to drink.
It's back to my first point. If you stand your lager on the bar it goes flat. It's the warming that causes the CO2 to leave the liquid. Not the CO2 leaving the liquid which causes the warming. Simple science. I used to sell spectrophotometers. I might even know something.
Now we do have elevated CO2 levels due to industrialisation, but it won't change the order in which things happen. We're in a long term period of warming. Let's just hope that the elevated CO2 level absorbs enough solar energy to the emit it back into space and keep the level of warming down. The sun is a massive source of radiation so it's intuitively obvious that "greenhouse gases" will have a protecting effect, not a heating effect. If they have any effect at all bearing in mind the low concentrations, and tiny significance compared to water vapour.
Better go now. I left a lager on the bar. Don't want it going flat.

I already addressed this in my first post. I don't disagree with you on this point. Raising temperature does cause CO2 to bubble out, which is why CO2 lags behind the temperature. This is not controversial and it doesn't present a problem to climatologists. Once the CO2 is out, however, it creates positive feedback and creates more warming, releasing more CO2, all the while other mechanisms kick in and a new equilibrium is established.

I like your analogy - it is like saying drunkenness causes us to drink. On the surface, this seems absurd. The drink comes first, and then you get drunk, so the drink causes the drunkenness. However, and I speak for myself here, there are many times I've gone with colleagues for a "quick one" after work, not intending to have more than a couple of pints, after which we are half cut and think "oh go on then, I'll have another", and next thing you know we're propping up the bar at closing time. Drunkenness didn't cause the first drink, but it is drunkenness that made it seem like a good idea to keep on drinking. To keep with the analogy, to insist that the lag between temperatures rising and CO2 being released is proof that CO2 doesn't cause temperatures to rise, is the same as insisting that the fact that someone drank before they got drunk is proof that they don't want to have another drink because they're drunk.

 

[chthon]

I did geology at uni, and we studied this fairly extensively. Global warming and cooling is cyclical, the problem we have at the moment is the speed at which it's happening. It has never increased by such a degree in such a short space of time, ever in earths history. And the only explanation is increased greenhouse gasses, and the only explanation for the sudden increase in greenhouse gasses in human activity. I honestly struggle to see why some people try so hard to deny this simple fact. Its logical, it fits the available evidence, and the vast majority of people in this planet with scientific credentials believe it to be true. What do you get from denying it?

A feelgood emotion? Oxytocins in their brain?

 

[Gunge]

Anthropogenic Global Warming ought to be the dictionary definition of 'cobblers'. Guys, you've all been had. The new deniers. Curbing CO2 emissions is about a lot of things; controlling the climate of a planet ain't one of them.

 

[Gunge]

All this crapola about the 'warmest times evah' etc. Did they have stations all over the world using state of the art temperature monitoring equipment hundreds / thousands of years ago against which they are making current comparisons? "Well yah it's 0.647C warmer than it was in ( insert the random year of choice, preferably a cherry-picked, known cold one)". Anyways it looks like 40 years worth of global warming have failed to topple the 1976 temp record for June. Must try harder! Purlease... none of this 'some places get cooler while some get warmer' nonsense. Records like that should be falling like ninepins in a warming world. And who gives a monkey's anyway? What annoys me and motivates comment is the scale of deception in the pursuit of some goal that has sod-all to do with the planet's climate. Excuse me whilst I nip outside to check on my date palms and banana plants lol.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Read more here - https://t.co/Z4479bf0bF

 

[Gunge]

Sea level cannot rise locally except through land submersion! If you added water to a bath on a perfectly flat surface would it only rise on one side? More global warming crapola. Al Gore had no qualms shelling out for oceanside mansions from his ill-gotten gains.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Did you bother to read the article i linked to?

 

[GlentoranMark]

We all know that things in moderation are fine while things in excess are bad (drink beer anyone?)

It took the planet hundreds of millions of years to bury all that carbon in the form of fossil fuels while in the past 100 years we've just released a lot of it. Even without knowing the science behind it I know that is not a good thing. Sure we can all deny it and bury our heads, we won't face the consequences but if you are a denier then for goodness sake please don't have any offspring as it's your children and grand children that will suffer.

 

[Cwrw666]

I think it would be on the radar, heating water for brewing and clean up is quite energy hungry compared to powering lighting and technology.
It would certainly be enough to take brewing quite a long way from carbon neutral.

So you don't wash then?

I do a brew every 3 or four weeks, total time for the `lecky being about 2 hours at 1.5Kw.
On the other hand we, as a family, have the emersion heater on for for 1 to 2 hours a day for showers, washing up etc. Less in the winter admittedly when the water is mostly heated by the wood burner, but it's still on every day.
On top of that there's the oven - every day - the washing machine - every 2 or 3 days.
Comparing a brew to lighting and computers, TVs etc. is just not fair.

 

[Vambrace]

Sea level cannot rise locally except through land submersion! If you added water to a bath on a perfectly flat surface would it only rise on one side? More global warming crapola. Al Gore had no qualms shelling out for oceanside mansions from his ill-gotten gains.

Can you explain the need for locks on the Panama Canal then?

 

[MyQul]

Can you explain the need for locks on the Panama Canal then?

Stop anyone nicking it?

 

[GlentoranMark]

Sea ice melting makes the oceans rise, HTH also warmer water is less dense than cold water so this will have an effect.

 

[Vambrace]

Stop anyone nicking it?

:) Very good

 

[Vambrace]

Sea ice melting makes the oceans rise, HTH also warmer water is less dense than cold water so this will have an effect.

The greatest cause of sea level rise is thermal expansion, followed by melting ice.

Southern Britain is subsiding, due to the influx of immigrants - sorry, due to rebound from the ice age still occurring in Northern Britain (I accidentally glanced at a copy of the Daily Mail for a second).

 

[Vambrace]

Floating ice doesn't make much difference when it melts as it's already in the sea (floating objects displace their own mass) - it's land ice that matters.

 

[TheQuokka]

Climate change is real - Al Gore's theories are BS. If you say you care about the environment and drive an diesel SUV for example - you are full of ****e. Cutting down trees to build McMansions and destroying arable lands with metallic pollution in the name of Al Gore's BS are causing far more problems.

Get a worm farm and compost bin to use the spent grains and other organic waste, then use it to grow hops and you will have a more positive effect than most politicians and businessmen around the globe!

(collectively.)

 

[TheQuokka]

Stop anyone nicking it?

Actually, it is to deal with difference in local areas compared to sea level - and it was created before global warming was first observed, about 150 years ago.

 

[Gunge]

So you don't wash then?

I take a bath once a fortnight, whether I need it or not - I'm not called Gunge for nuthin'. One must maintain one's standards.