Beer a touch too bitter.............

[MmmmCitra]

I've noticed that a few of my hoppy beers are tasting a little too bitter which is strange because I never add hops at 60 minutes and generally just add a few at 5 mins then flameout, about 65c for 30 minutes then a biggish dose of pellets for a 3 day dry hop.
What would be making the beer bitter, I just don't get it

 

[chthon]

Is that when fresh, or still after a couple of weeks? I had a saison which was hopped in about the same way. In the first couple of weeks it had a little bit of a harsh bitterness, but tasting yesterday evening one, this harsh bitterness is subdued and now it tastes fine.

I suppose it is because I used Merkur, a hop which is normally only used for bittering, but with this test I showed that a single hop beer using this can also be nice. But it needs a bit of time. So, which hops did you use?

Another factor might be the original gravity. A wort with a lower original gravity will probably still create some bitterness at 65°. I made some hop teas, that is just water + hop, and they were very bitter.

And what were the alpha acid concentrations of your hops?

 

[Jim Brewster]

What IBU is the recipe and what is the bitterness to gravity ratio (BU/GU)?

 

[MmmmCitra]

The bitterness doesn't fade with age, the beer is still decent but with the bitter edge.
My recipes are deliberately aiming for almost no IBUs so I can't work out why I'm getting the bitterness ?

 

[AdeDunn]

Sparging too hot? Water chemistry problems? A lot of very dark grain in your grists?

 

[BeerCat]

Are you using high AA hops? Adding lactose to the keg would help reduce perceived bitterness.

 

[Cestrian]

How much gypsum are you addin?

 

[MmmmCitra]

Sparging too hot? Water chemistry problems? A lot of very dark grain in your grists?

Sparging at about 65c...........use bottled Tesco Ashbeck water so water chemistry shouldn't be a problem and zero dark grains used.

Are you using high AA hops? Adding lactose to the keg would help reduce perceived bitterness.

Yes, I like hoppy beers and my hops reflect this, varies but mainly over 10AA up to 15AA.......lactose is interesting, used it a few times, maybe need to again as I liked the results.

How much gypsum are you addin?

1/8th tsp for 10lts although now been advised by Strange-Steve to up it to 3/4 tsp...............

Thanks all for the suggestions. Any other ideas out there ??

 

[foxy]

The bitterness doesn't fade with age, the beer is still decent but with the bitter edge.
My recipes are deliberately aiming for almost no IBUs so I can't work out why I'm getting the bitterness ?

Surprisingly a lot of home brewers do not recognise astringency, me, I don't mind a touch, but if you are looking for low IBU's then that is where I would be looking.

 

[MmmmCitra]

Hmmmm, interesting, I don't think it's astringency, i've just looked it up and the things that can cause it I'm not doing, I'll look into it more closely, maybe that is part of the problem.
Don't get me wrong, my beer is always pretty good, if I could sort this out, it doesn't happen every time, then it would be even better, I am always striving to improve, like us all no doubt :)
Thanks.

 

[Kinneuchar]

If you are Biab and squeezing the bag out after mashing then that could lead to a harshness/bitterness in the final result. When I first started Biab the advice was squeeze the thing dry and had some pretty bitter/harsh brews. Recently after reading somewhere that squeezing the bag is not a good idea I have had no issues with unwanted bitterness.

 

[dan125]

What sort of hopping rates are you using at the different stages?
I've Just started drinking a NEIPA in which I changed my usual 5min boil addition for a 10min FO hopstand (before chilling to 75 for the 2nd, bigger standard WP addition), and I'm sure its more bitter than usual.
If you are doing both a 5min and FO addition it could be bumping up the IBUs quite a bit.
You can also get a decent amount of perceived bitternes from your DH if you use enough of them.

 

[stan.distortion]

Sparge water too hot also caused some astringency here, I was sparging at a little over 80 deg and it was gone at under 70 deg.

 

[MmmmCitra]

If you are Biab and squeezing the bag out after mashing then that could lead to a harshness/bitterness in the final result. When I first started Biab the advice was squeeze the thing dry and had some pretty bitter/harsh brews. Recently after reading somewhere that squeezing the bag is not a good idea I have had no issues with unwanted bitterness.

I am doing BiaB but not really squeezing the bag, after the mash I place it into a sieve to catch the liquid, maybe a little push down to get a bit more liquor, then the bag into another pan of water at about 60c ish to dunk sparge.
I've also read that actually squeezing almost dry isn't really a problem, although some people think the opposite.

 

[MmmmCitra]

What sort of hopping rates are you using at the different stages?
I've Just started drinking a NEIPA in which I changed my usual 5min boil addition for a 10min FO hopstand (before chilling to 75 for the 2nd, bigger standard WP addition), and I'm sure its more bitter than usual.
If you are doing both a 5min and FO addition it could be bumping up the IBUs quite a bit.
You can also get a decent amount of perceived bitternes from your DH if you use enough of them.

Mainly a smallish addition with 5 mins to go, a bigger addition at flameout when the temperature is about 65c for 30 mins, then dry hop with 3 days to go before bottling. Quite a big dry hop but I always thought that you get no bitterness at a low temperature, about 18c........

 

[MmmmCitra]

Sparge water too hot also caused some astringency here, I was sparging at a little over 80 deg and it was gone at under 70 deg.

Yep, I always sparge under 70c............sometimes about 60c

 

[AdeDunn]

I've also read that actually squeezing almost dry isn't really a problem, although some people think the opposite.

Test it for yourself. I always say this is better, as people can often taste things differently to others, so what one person says is fine, another may find isn't..... The arguments I've had over the years about priming with sucrose (normal refined sugar), with people telling me to do it as it's fine, and me pointing out to them that I tried it a few times, and it made my beer taste like there was cider in it. It was fine for them, but both my wife and myself could taste the difference with it, so it wasn't for us. Especially if that "bitterness" is making your mouth feel dry (aka. astringency) like you get with very strong black tea. Hop bitterness doesn't add any astringency, bitterness related to the grain usually does I find (heavily roasted malts for example add a bit).

I personally found that French Saison yeast increased bitterness too, as does black pepper. But hazarding a guess that you aren't using these. lol

It could just be that you're super sensitive to hops even, some folks just don't get on with them.

 

[MmmmCitra]

I get the idea of testing for yourself, always the way to go to find out your own personal preference.

The strange thing is my procedure is pretty consistent when brewing with just a little tinkering with grain bill and hops so it's strange that the occasional one comes out more bitter than others and for no perceivable difference.

I can certainly live with it and it's all part of the joys of this hobby really.

Cheers :)

 

[Surfingobo]

@AdeDunn interested to know what you use instead, my brews have got an ever so slightly cidery taste that I had put down to bring kits, but could be the sugar. Could this be part of the reason that force carbonating beers are ready in a few days where bottle condition beers need weeks, even once properly carbonated. Something to explore further!

 

[AdeDunn]

@AdeDunn interested to know what you use instead, my brews have got an ever so slightly cidery taste that I had put down to bring kits, but could be the sugar. Could this be part of the reason that force carbonating beers are ready in a few days where bottle condition beers need weeks, even once properly carbonated. Something to explore further!

Ok, well hopefully nobody jumps on my head and starts a debate with me, and yes it is a little more expensive, but I use glucose monohydrate, aka. corn sugar, aka brewing sugar. It contributes absolutely no flavour at all IMHO. I bought a few kilos of it right back when I started brewing though (5 kilos I think it was, in 500g bags) in a sale, and am still using the same batch to this day... I wouldn't like to speculate on force carbed beers conditioning faster to be honest, although I would say that obviously if you bottle prime you are going to have yeast in suspension a little bit longer whilst it carbonates the beer I'd think. I tried carb drops too, but weirdly seem to get a sour, acidic flavour when I have used these, they're just hard lumps of sugar anyway, so really are a bit of a rip off really. I've also used honey in styles where this was a good thing (honey is amazing in a saison for example), it's especially nice with anything a bit lemony unsurprisingly.. lol I used Lowics cherry syrup once too, I don't recommend it... Not an easy beer to drink, but then it's 9%....

Sorry for the off topic Citra, hope you don't mind. If it's any comfort, I get a beer every now and then that just seems to be more bitter, even using the same batch of hops as another brew etc. I put it down to water chemistry usually, ratio slightly out or something.