Batch Sparge Top-Up

[danwlx]

Hello all,

I'm thinking of going AG after doing a few kits. I'm in the process of getting a boiler, mash tun and chiller, it looks like I have all the rest of the gear from my kit brewing equipment.

I have been looking at step by steps and the forum here which has a wealth of knowledge. I have 2 questions that I would appreciate any help with:

- I have used a batch sparge calculator which gives a 'top-up' figure for batch 1, I have also seen this top-up mentioned elsewhere. Is this a mash-out volume that is added just before you start to drain and recirculate or is it an additional amount added right at the start that is needed due to losses from dead space in the MTc?

- The water treatment stuff is beyond me at the moment, will I be OK just adding a campden tablet for the first brew?

Cheers
Dan

 

[markp]

Hi Dan,

First the easy bit.....yes, just treat with a campden tablet and brew. See how your beer turns out and go from there. Many would also say to add a teaspoon of gypsum to both the mash and the boil.

Batch sparging.
You will mash with a water to grain ratio of 2.5 litres of water per kilo of grain. Some of the water will be absorbed by the grain (never to return), there is also the dead space in the tun, water lost to evaporation during the boil and an amount you will lose to hops and trub.

If you click on the link to the calculators top left, there is a batch sparge calculator.
Enter in the numbers for your brew - brew length, dead space, evaporation etc and then hit the calculate button.
It will then tell you: total amount of liquor needed, the amount of wort you need to draw from the mash for the boil, the 2 equal batch sizes you need to draw off the mash, the amount of water required to mash with, and the first and second top up amounts.

Simply:
Add (x) volume of water to the grains to mash.
Add (y) volume of water to top up after the mash
Draw off (z) volume of wort for first batch
Add another (a) volume of water to top up the mash
Draw off another (z) volume of wort to add to the boiler.

Hope that helps.

 

[danwlx]

Thanks Mark,

That's very helpful. One further query, when adding the top-up (y) am I just adding it then draining immediately, waiting for 10 minutes to settle, or mixing the top-up water with the grains, waiting and then drawing off batch 1 (z)?

 

[markp]

To be honest Dan I don't really know the answer to that.....I'm a fly sparger myself.
I'm only guessing here, but I would say that after each top up it would be better to stir and then let settle as you suggest.
One of the batch guys will be along soon enough to confirm I'm sure.

ATB

 

[bob downe]

Thanks Mark,

That's very helpful. One further query, when adding the top-up (y) am I just adding it then draining immediately, waiting for 10 minutes to settle, or mixing the top-up water with the grains, waiting and then drawing off batch 1 (z)?

Dunno if this will help but this is how I do it. I do as many sparges as it takes to get the correct volume for the boiler, due to the size of my mach tun (about 18L)

I've only done two AGs so far but both times my efficiency comes out at around 82%.

I add 12.5 Litres of strike water and mash at 64C-66C then after 90 mins, I dont bother topping up I just take the first runnings into the boiler. (With a 2 Litre recirc.)

Whilst doing that, my HLT is heating up more water to about 70-80C.

I then add another 12.5 Litres to the mash. Mix it up a bit, leave for 10 mins then take second runnings. (With 2 Litre recirc.)


I repeat the above processes until I have enough for the boiler. - About 27 Litres.


Both brews have come out great.

 

[phettebs]

Hmm. I replied to this earlier but it didn't seem to save.

So I'm a batch sparger. The software I use tells me the absorption rate of the water into the grain and how much I will be short at the end of the mash. I used to just add that amount in right before recirculating and I'd have to heat it up towards the end of the mash. Sometimes I'd forget. Now, I just add it all in as part of my strike water volume at the beginning.

I try to end up with equal volumes from the first and second runoffs.

Does that help?

Barry

 

[shaunsbrew]

Question for Wez have you tried Bob downes method as per above, and bob have you checked the running gravity when doing it this method ? :wha:

 

[danwlx]

Thanks for all the replies!

So it seems that I can either add it at the end of the mash or include it in my first batch strike water, I may take the easy route and add it at the beginning.

From what I have read so far 82% is a good efficiency, does that mean that more batches produce higher gravity brews?

 

[bob downe]

Question for Wez have you tried Bob downes method as per above, and bob have you checked the running gravity when doing it this method ? :wha:

I did on my first AG but I forget what it was running at. I think gravity of runnings is only a concern for fly spargers.

On my second AG I didn't bother. I can tell you that the runnings are weak at the end, almost clear. Very little sugary taste. I figured rather than top up the boiler with HLT water, why not run it through the grains for any remaining goodness.

Seems to give me great efficiency.

 

[bob downe]

Thanks for all the replies!

From what I have read so far 82% is a good efficiency, does that mean that more batches produce higher gravity brews?

There is a school of thought that repeated small sparges produce better efficiency. My hands are tied due to mash tun size when using a 5Kg grain bill so I can't test against one sparge.

Give it a shot and see if your efficiency improves. It's slightly more work, but no where near as long winded as fly sparging.

 

[prolix]

I used to batch sparge and try for two equal sparges but got bored and so went for, first runnings measured that saw how much extra I needed then added that in two lots as dead space and grain losses had been accounted for.

You have to leave the liquor in the grain for a length of time to get the sugars out of the grain how long if don't know but I left mine for about 15 mins stirring occasionally