Backsweeting - heresy?

[Moonraker]

I racked off my Crabapple and Blackberry ciders into clean DJs this afternoon, FG of 1.000 - 1.001 so just about fermented out now. Taste test not too bad, the Crabapple is a bit tart in a stripenamelfromteeth kind of way, but the Blackberry shows promise. However both are very dry. Both me and the wife prefer a slightly sweeter medium cider, so is adding a bit of Young's Wine Sweetener before bottling in about a month's time the answer?

 

[Hagrid]

You can also stabilise and add sugar if you prefer. I have a pet hatred of sweeteners so this is my preferred method for back-sweetening wines.

 

[Moonraker]

@Hagrid thanks,

I have a pet hatred of sweeteners

me too hence the "heresy". However I want to prime the bottles with 1 teaspoon sugar when I bottle it in about a month's time to carbonate it. If I stabilise it then that isn't going to work. (?)

 

[Hagrid]

The stabiliser doesn’t kill yeast it just stops it reproducing so after the natural life span of the existing yeast it will stop. I’ve had a bottle bomb even after using it. However it does make priming a stab in the dark.

The other option is to “max out” your yeast. If your yeast has an alcohol tolerance of (for example) 14% once your cider has hit that the yeast will stop fermenting. Allowing you to finish with a higher FG. That way you get the sweetness you’re after without any chemicals. It does however mean you can end up with loopy juice.... or get a lower alcohol tollerant yeast.

 

[Moonraker]

Hmmm, interesting. "Loopy juice" I can live with. :^) But, if the yeast has been maxed out so that there's a higher FG, then surely it won't carbonate once bottled?

Is it a trade-off between dry fizzy and sweet flat?

 

[Hagrid]

But, if the yeast has been maxed out so that there's a higher FG, then surely it won't carbonate once bottled?

Unless you can workout a predicted FG and bottle before you hit it? But that’s beyond my powers of maths.

I’d be really interested how you get on with this though.

 

[LED_ZEP]

You can always add fruit juice or sugar syrup to the glass when you serve. I wouldn't just add sugar to the glass if you've primed as it would just fizzup then go flat.

 

[An Ankoù]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, and purely out of interest, can wine be sweetened with lactic acid? I know it's not all that sweet and you'd need more of it, but does wine yeast ferment lactic acid?

 

[Moonraker]

Right so, this would appear to be something of a can of worms. :^)

I have been doing a bit of research and had a discussion with the wife as although she complains of mess and the utility room being full of DJs, she is an appreciative joint consumer of the end product. We agree that palatability trumps fizzicality - i.e something tasting nice is more important than it being fizzy - but having both would be nice.

I am not going to mess with my current batches, but as I am going to be pressing apples again next week I can feel a case of empirical experimentation coming on! So I'm thinking of a trial of 5 different approaches using 5 DJs set up as follows so that the end results can be compared side by side - please check my figures and critique the approaches!:

1 - control sample
Ferment to dry: O.G 1080 (500g sugar) = 11%
Condition for 1 month
Bottling 1 teaspoon priming sugar per 1l

2- sweetener + prime
Ferment to dry O.G 1080 (500g sugar) = 11%
Condition for 1 month
Add wine sweetener to taste (yah, boo!)
Bottling 1 teaspoon priming sugar per 1l

3- lactose + prime
Ferment to dry O.G 1080 (500g sugar) = 11%
Condition for 1 month
Add 100g lactose (maybe 150-200g?) (@An Ankoù thanks for the pointer on this one)
Bottling 1 teaspoon priming sugar per 1l

4- over prime + pasteurize
Ferment to dry O.G 1080 (500g sugar) = 11%
Condition for 1 month
Bottling 3 teaspoon priming sugar per 1l
Test PET bottle - when firm:
Pasteurise bottles in boiling water to stop fermentation

5- "maxed" yeast - no prime
Ferment until stop (1.010?) from O.G 1110 (875g sugar) = 13.5% (@Hagrid thanks for suggesting)
Condition for 1 month
Bottling no priming sugar

 

[pgk]

Impossible amount of permutations available...suggest also maxing out a yeast in an oversweetened starter then bottling mixed with a percentage fermented to dry at lower ABV for your fizz...

 

[BartonMillBrewer]

I have successfully carbonated my cider by allowing the cider to complete fermentation, usually December after juicing September/October. While the fermentation may have stopped this does not necessarily mean the yeasts are dead.
I then dissolve 2.5g/L of sugar to the batch and bottle it. The theory is that as I'm adding a finite amount of sugar to each bottle the residual yeast can only ferment that out creating a safe light carbonation.
The only failure I have had to date was adding rhubarb extract. Even though I flash pasteurised the batch before bottling I ended up with a lot of bottle bombs.

 

[Hagrid]

@BartonMillBrewer i think @Moonraker was after having a sweeter finish although your. Approach works for carbonation it’s would end up drier than (I’m assuming) he’s after.

 

[BartonMillBrewer]

@BartonMillBrewer i think @Moonraker was after having a sweeter finish although your. Approach works for carbonation it’s would end up drier than (I’m assuming) he’s after.

It does and I was focussing on the effects of adding sugar. Too much sugar and you end up with bottles blowing so the only way to get sweetener in is to either stabilise, add sugar and hope fermentation doesn't kick off again or use an artificial sweetener.
You could always try to keeve the cider.

 

[Moonraker]

You could always try to keeve the cider.

@Hagrid is right, I was looking for something slightly sweeter than dry hence pasteurisation seems to be the way to avoid bottle bombs (although I read that they can also blow in the kettle when boiling - so best try that when the wife is out for the day....)

I did read about keeving but thought best not to try running before walking... depending on how this lot come out I might try that next year...

 

[An Ankoù]

In my (limited) experience, keeving is a nightmare. I think it works better on a large scale rather than on a few gallons.