At last a chiller

[snail59]

Oxyclean or PBW would be fine or the new Murphys home brew Cleanser Sanitiser . . . and that's 20 minutes in the pressure cooker

Thanks Tony I'm getting more comfortable with the idea now. Would the 20 plate 44KW one be up to the job?????.

 

[Aleman]

Would the 20 plate 44KW one be up to the job?????.

What it comes down to is wort throughput, the higher the KW rating (up to a point) the faster the wort flow can be to reach a given temperature. . . . Above a certain number of plates though Plate size becomes more important.

So In answer to your question the 44KW one will work but your wort flow will not be as quick as a 90KW one . . . The issue becomes more important as coolant temperatures rise . . . there may come a point during the summer when you just may not be able to cool the wort to pitching temperature . . . which was the problem with my earlier 16 Plate one

 

[snail59]

Thanks Tony yet again you have been a great help :clap: For me time is not an issue but cost is so I will go with the 44KW Unit. After all it will be part of the Snailpace Brewery anyway

 

[Dieseljockey]

After all it will be part of the Snailpace Brewery anyway

Love it.. :lol: I had a racing snail..I took his shell off...but it made him sluggish..never won a race again... :lol:

Back to these plate chillers...bloody hell they look like hard work... :lol: pressure cookers...and all that...still I think when the time comes that's the way to go....cheers Aleman for all the updates on the work involved. :thumb:

 

[Aleman]

Back to these plate chillers...bloody hell they look like hard work... :lol: pressure cookers...and all that..

I agree, you don't need to sterilise them in a pressure cooker . . . but as you can't take it apart to be sure that it is clean/sterile . . . then its the way to go IMO . . . another alternative is to recirculate boiling wort through it for 15 minutes at the end of the boil . . . but that requires a pump so no good for gravity operation. . . . Chemicals is another alternative . . . but it's degrees of confidence. . . . I am confident that 15 minutes in a pressure cooker has killed everything dead.

For quick and simple you cannot beat an immersion chiller

 

[pjbiker]

another alternative is to recirculate boiling wort through it for 15 minutes at the end of the boil . . . but that requires a pump so no good for gravity operation. .

This is what I do with my CFC chiller now after a good rinse through with sanitiser and then water. Wondered why other folks didn't do this. I assumed most would have a pump if they have a plate chiller.

. I am confident that 15 minutes in a pressure cooker has killed everything dead.

You must have worked/work in an aseptic laboratory environment :thumb: been a 'slave to the autoclave' Tony?

The issue becomes more important as coolant temperatures rise . . . there may come a point during the summer when you just may not be able to cool the wort to pitching temperature . . . which was the problem with my earlier 16 Plate one

What kind of wort flow rate (eg. rough time to fill a 5gal FV) and coolant temp did this become an issue? You reckon 44Kw 20plate is most appropriate for 10gal system then? Don't remember what brewlength you're using.

 

[mentaldental]

I wonder how effective a pressure cooker is at sterilizing a plate chiller.

A pressure cooker is a similar to displacement autoclave (in other words the air is displaced by the steam). Displacement autoclaves are fine for sterilizing solid objects but much less effective for complex ones with lots of tubes, channels etc. because the steam does not reliably penetrate the nooks and crannies. A plate cooler has lots of channels, of course.

(The reason that the lack of steam penetration is important is as follows: steam contains lots of energy as heat which is why boiling water requires continuous application of power. Steam sterilizes by releasing this heat as it condenses on any micro-organisms. At one atmosphere of pressure/135C it will do this in 3 minutes. Hot air is much less effective because it contains less energy and will require several hours at a higher temperature in order to kill the nasties)

For this reason, in my field of work, displacement autoclaves are being replaced with vacuum autoclaves which remove the air with a pump in order to ensure that steam penetrates all the important little places.

I think (and I have no data to back this up so take with a pinch of salt) that if you use a plate chiller your best bet is lots of cleaning followed by chemical disinfection.

 

[beermonsta]

. . . but as you can't take it apart to be sure that it is clean/sterile . . .

some you can...like mine...

and combined with my 8 coil Immersion cooler I hope to get the best of both worlds!

 

[rickthebrew]

that`s some serious chillin kit you got :shock:

:thumb:

 

[Aleman]

I like that Paraflow - Still looking for one . . . the plate chillers I was talking about are the Combi Boiler heat exchanger types . . . Copper Brazed units.

 

[Steve k]

Evening guys

As a newbie to this brewing game I have been reading all sections of this forum. Although I am predominately interested in wine making a topic that keeps cropping up is that of beer brewing coolers.....

As a refrigeration engineer I am sure I could build something to do your chilling without the waste involved with using cold running water.
Think along the lines of aquarium chiller. I'm sure I could knock some sort of DX kit up that would save money in the long run over using running water.

Could any body give me some numbers to play with? these would be nice:

a)Liquid volume, b)hot liquid entering temp and specific gravity, c)desired cooled liquid exiting temp, & d)process duration.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Aleman]

Ok Steve I'll Bite. I really don't think that It is possible to do it any less effectively than a Paraflow (Which is why all the big breweries do it)

a)Liquid volume, - In my case 130L
b)hot liquid entering temp and specific gravity, 100C Gravity Anything up to about 1.070
c)desired cooled liquid exiting temp, - 20C 25C at a push
d)process duration. 15 Minutes

The breweries that I know can transfer 18BBL (1 Brewers Barrel is 36 Gallons - 164L) through the Paraflow cooling to 20C in 45 minutes . . .Of Course it helps having teh Cold Liquor Tank holding 20BBL of Liquor at 6C . . .Which goes to the HLT after acting as a coolant for the following days brewing

 

[Steve k]

Cheers.
Thanks for your reply, but there really is nothing to bite at.... I'm just curious to know if I could utilise a van/lock up/garage full of odds and sods to benefit my home brewing (if I choose to go down the beer route) and not waste so much water in the process. :

Although you brew 130l at a time, what other volumes would your average home brewer be looking to cool? If you want to cool 130l by 80 deg C in 15 mins, is it linear? i.e would 65l in 30 mins do or would it have to be 7.5 mins?

Sorry for the questions, it's just that my imagination has been tickled and I need a new project to get out in the garage for. :party:

Cheers

Steve

ps, just to assure you that I am not investigating for commercial interest PM me and I will give you my company web address.

 

[Aleman]

I guess I'm just a tad insane regarding my brewing . . .I maintain that things have just got out of hand temporarily, and normal service will resume eventually :lol:

The small combi boiler Plate chiller I have will effectively cool wort from boiling to 25C at the rate of 5L per minute, Dependant on coolant temperatures and that is the big kicker when the groundwater temperature is 20C . . . it's much less efficient.

In a more normal home brewer set up the typical brewer is cooling 5Gallons (23L) from boiling to around 25C in about 30-40 minutes assuming a good coolant temperature and an immersion chiller.

In the summer I plan on using a pub python chiller (Similar to an aquarium chiller) to cool the coolant before feeding it to my plate chiller which hopefully will enable me to get sensible pitching temperatures when the Groundwater has warmed up.

If something commercial comes of this that is affordable and effective . . . . Then great, even better if it can be built by reasonably competent people at home from standard parts.

 

[Steve k]

Thanks for that, now I have somthing to get my teeth into.

So....we are looking at cooling 1l of liquid, 75degC in anything from a rate of 5l/m for the pro's to 1.5l/m for the novices.....or basically as fast as possible without frosting the brew?

The kit i'm looking at :drunk: building would involve refrigerant gases evaporating at appx 2 deg c, so unfortunately won't be available for home builders. But.......I reckon I should be able to do it for less than a £.......malfunction.......malfunction..(let me do the sums) :)

Cheers

Steve

 

[Aleman]

Someone came up with the great idea of running supercooled methanol through the cooler and letting the wort flow under gravity. Using Dry Ice as the refrigerant source for the methanol. . .. . :twisted: :twisted: . . . . :hmm: