Are you really happy with your ale ? Really happy ?

[Bang Road Brewery]

I am . Kind of . -Ish . Some's been better than others ,it has to be said. I'm about 35 or so brews in , but always feel things could be better , especially when compared to the commercials I drink . Citra , Punk , Hazy Jane , Sam Smith's bitter , but mostly the hoppy stuff. I always seem to end up with very 'thin' tasting beer , not short of IBu's , but lacking the depyh of flavour I crave . Typical brewday sketch along the lines of;
5kg pale,
half K of some kind of Caramalt , ,
maybe a handful of black malt , just to add a bit of colour and use up dregs of what's left .
Occasionally , the Cara is split with aome Pilsner , Lager or whatever on hand as a 'use up' grain.
The mash has varied between an hour and hour and half , once tried about 2 hours.
Boils between an hour and hour and half. I've tried mash temps from 64 degrees to 68 degrees , and all manner of rests in between .
Most hop additions are what you may term 'late' , but usually some bittering added near the start of boil .Dry hopping is usually done after a couple of weeks , when in secondary. Fave hops being Citra , Amarillo , and needless to say all the 'C' varieties. Whilst still fermenting, the hop aroma is all there , and often the beer tastes damn good when swigging the hydrometer samples. But it's still a ways to go in gravity, It seems the more it ages ,the 'thinner' it gets. When kegging, it's already gone past the stage I consider it's best , flavour-wise , and gravity is still maybe 1.022 or thereabouts. I use Hambleton Bard pressure barrels, as I have heaps of 'em , and 2 will fit in my 'Ferment-O-Fridge' . I have had better results with recipe kits from Brew UK. , but it seems they've gone tits-up , which is a shame , as I always had great service from them .
I usually go to secondry when the Krausen has subsided mostly , maybe around a week or so. I ferment at various temps between 18C and 21C.

Has anyone any ideas where I might adjust my , er , I hesitate to call it technique' , but for want of a better yerm that will have to suffice.

 

[Clarence]

I am . Kind of . -Ish . Some's been better than others ,it has to be said. I'm about 35 or so brews in , but always feel things could be better , especially when compared to the commercials I drink . Citra , Punk , Hazy Jane , Sam Smith's bitter , but mostly the hoppy stuff. I always seem to end up with very 'thin' tasting beer , not short of IBu's , but lacking the depyh of flavour I crave . Typical brewday sketch along the lines of;
5kg pale,
half K of some kind of Caramalt , ,
maybe a handful of black malt , just to add a bit of colour and use up dregs of what's left .
Occasionally , the Cara is split with aome Pilsner , Lager or whatever on hand as a 'use up' grain.
The mash has varied between an hour and hour and half , once tried about 2 hours.
Boils between an hour and hour and half. I've tried mash temps from 64 degrees to 68 degrees , and all manner of rests in between .
Most hop additions are what you may term 'late' , but usually some bittering added near the start of boil .Dry hopping is usually done after a couple of weeks , when in secondary. Fave hops being Citra , Amarillo , and needless to say all the 'C' varieties. Whilst still fermenting, the hop aroma is all there , and often the beer tastes damn good when swigging the hydrometer samples. But it's still a ways to go in gravity, It seems the more it ages ,the 'thinner' it gets. When kegging, it's already gone past the stage I consider it's best , flavour-wise , and gravity is still maybe 1.022 or thereabouts. I use Hambleton Bard pressure barrels, as I have heaps of 'em , and 2 will fit in my 'Ferment-O-Fridge' . I have had better results with recipe kits from Brew UK. , but it seems they've gone ****-up , which is a shame , as I always had great service from them .
I usually go to secondry when the Krausen has subsided mostly , maybe around a week or so. I ferment at various temps between 18C and 21C.

Has anyone any ideas where I might adjust my , er , I hesitate to call it technique' , but for want of a better yerm that will have to suffice.

What do you do about your water chemistry? Do you test and adjust the alkalinity and mineral levels? Recipe and process look ok.

 

[Bang Road Brewery]

I don't test , I have in the past had a water report from the water authority , but given their current performance , or lack thereof , would not trust it as far as I could chuck a greasy water company director. I usually add a little calcium chloride , couple or grams -ish , and always check and adjust mash pH with lactic acid , I get a reading of 5 to 4.5 Most often no adjustment is required. . Our water where I live is pretty damn good right from the tap , it has no taste overtones , and is about pH 6.5. to 7. I add a crushed Campden for chlorine/chloramine control , to both the mash and sparge water. I'm pretty sure some adjustment to my methodology may be key, here . Some local breweries I know use the water as is, and have good ale you want to just keep swilling!

 

[Clarence]

I don't test , I have in the past had a water report from the water authority , but given their current performance , or lack thereof , would not trust it as far as I could chuck a greasy water company director. I usually add a little calcium chloride , couple or grams -ish , and always check and adjust mash pH with lactic acid , I get a reading of 5 to 4.5 Most often no adjustment is required. . Our water where I live is pretty damn good right from the tap , it has no taste overtones , and is about pH 6.5. to 7. I add a crushed Campden for chlorine/chloramine control , to both the mash and sparge water. I'm pretty sure some adjustment to my methodology may be key, here . Some local breweries I know use the water as is, and have good ale you want to just keep swilling!

I'll bet they adjust the alkalinity even so. High carbonate water can taste great, but it affects the mash, My advice is get a Salifert alkalinity test kit and then adjust the water according to @strange-steve 's post here Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)
I don't think you can go forward until you've got this bit right,

 

[Bang Road Brewery]

Hmmmmm....
that's an aquarium test kit. I have similar, as I'm a fishkeeper amongst other things. For my next brew , I'll do this , and see how things pan out. It may be some time before I next brew , as things are busy right now , but I will return to this post and update and/or seek advice before commencing. Now thinking that it may be time to see if there's such a thing as a dedicated water test kit aimed at brewers specifically , I'd considered fishkeeping products in the past, but thought they may be slanted towards fishy requirements as opposed to anything else. For reference, and anyone who may be familiar with the local water ,I'm in Droylsden , east Manchester .

 

[Galena]

1) Why are you adding Calcium Chloride? I'm not saying you are wrong but what are you aiming for and why a couple of grams?
2) You say mash pH is "5 to 4.5" by that do you mean between 4.5 and 5.0? If so that is way too low, mash pH measured at room temperature should preferably be between 5.2 and 5.6
3) Gravity at 1.022 when kegging, seems very high?
4) I'm not being critical but it sounds a bit like you chuck a bit of this in and a bit of that, do you work to a recipe or do you actually use software to work out your own?
5) Malt Miller do decent well respected all grain kits it might be worth trying them, or acttualy brewing to a known good recipe after getting your water profile and making the correct additions.

P.S. This imo is a good instructional video on how to use a Salifert (or API) kit and calculate your water profile from it.

 

[Sadfield]

Agree, worth looking at water, although Manchester's water is pretty good for brewing IIRC. What yeast type, pitch rate or handling? Did the kits that have different yeast?

Also, that's your cleaning and sanitation regime? Getting thinner with age, doesn't sound good.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I am . Kind of . -Ish . Some's been better than others ,it has to be said. I'm about 35 or so brews in , but always feel things could be better , especially when compared to the commercials I drink . Citra , Punk , Hazy Jane , Sam Smith's bitter , but mostly the hoppy stuff. I always seem to end up with very 'thin' tasting beer , not short of IBu's , but lacking the depyh of flavour I crave . Typical brewday sketch along the lines of;
5kg pale,
half K of some kind of Caramalt , ,
maybe a handful of black malt , just to add a bit of colour and use up dregs of what's left .
Occasionally , the Cara is split with aome Pilsner , Lager or whatever on hand as a 'use up' grain.
The mash has varied between an hour and hour and half , once tried about 2 hours.
Boils between an hour and hour and half. I've tried mash temps from 64 degrees to 68 degrees , and all manner of rests in between .
Most hop additions are what you may term 'late' , but usually some bittering added near the start of boil .Dry hopping is usually done after a couple of weeks , when in secondary. Fave hops being Citra , Amarillo , and needless to say all the 'C' varieties. Whilst still fermenting, the hop aroma is all there , and often the beer tastes damn good when swigging the hydrometer samples. But it's still a ways to go in gravity, It seems the more it ages ,the 'thinner' it gets. When kegging, it's already gone past the stage I consider it's best , flavour-wise , and gravity is still maybe 1.022 or thereabouts. I use Hambleton Bard pressure barrels, as I have heaps of 'em , and 2 will fit in my 'Ferment-O-Fridge' . I have had better results with recipe kits from Brew UK. , but it seems they've gone ****-up , which is a shame , as I always had great service from them .
I usually go to secondry when the Krausen has subsided mostly , maybe around a week or so. I ferment at various temps between 18C and 21C.

Has anyone any ideas where I might adjust my , er , I hesitate to call it technique' , but for want of a better yerm that will have to suffice.

I never go anywhere without a bag of DWE*

Straight tap water treated with a campden tablet thesedays. I find dwe adds a bit of body.

* - This might be an exaggeration.

 

[Clint]

Well I found to make any changes I had to be consistent,good or bad,recipe,repeat recipe,methods,timings,volumes....
First simple thing was to use Campden tab to remove chlorine. Next,very basic water treatment and analysis. I used the fish tank water kits and followed strangesteves methods on here. I'm a beginner at water and I've hit a point where I can't at this time add any more to it.
Another big one is temperature control. I also keep detailed brew sheets of every brew day including user upper brews. Even to the point if a recipe I've done 8 times the late addition has an extra 5g of hops in as it was the last of the pack.

 

[Clarence]

Hmmmmm....
that's an aquarium test kit. I have similar, as I'm a fishkeeper amongst other things. For my next brew , I'll do this , and see how things pan out. It may be some time before I next brew , as things are busy right now , but I will return to this post and update and/or seek advice before commencing. Now thinking that it may be time to see if there's such a thing as a dedicated water test kit aimed at brewers specifically , I'd considered fishkeeping products in the past, but thought they may be slanted towards fishy requirements as opposed to anything else. For reference, and anyone who may be familiar with the local water ,I'm in Droylsden , east Manchester .

I've looked and didn't find anything at a reasonable price. The salifert kits work just fine for alkalinity although the calcium test is not so easy to use.
There's something wrong if you're getting an FG of 1022 consistently. A two-hour mash with the ingredients you mention, certainly at the lower end of the scale should be giving you FGs well south of 1010 with most yeasts. What yeast are you using, by the way?
Have you calibrated your thermometer and or hydrometer recently?

JUST A THOUGHT
You say your beer drinks thin. Maybe it is thin! Imagine your hydrometer was 10 degrees out (which would be a massive error, but let's go with it) An OG reading of 1050 would really be 1040, and an FG of 1020 would really be 1010. A less full-bodied beer than you'd hoped for. Perhaps that's why your kit recipes taste better.
It's a long shot, but test your hydrometer. It should read 1000 in tap water at calibration temperature, which is often 20C and will be marked on the hydrometer.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I'm going to court controversy here and maybe cause a split in the camp, but let's face it, some men just want to see the world burn.

Here goes.....

All of the best beers iv made including a recent lager that was a real cut above previous ones have been made with liquid yeast.

 

[The Baron]

I'm going to court controversy here and maybe cause a split in the camp, but let's face it, some men just want to see the world burn.

Here goes.....

All of the best beers iv made including a recent lager that was a real cut above previous ones have been made with liquid yeast.

Blasphemy

 

[Sadfield]

I'm going to court controversy here and maybe cause a split in the camp, but let's face it, some men just want to see the world burn.

Here goes.....

All of the best beers iv made including a recent lager that was a real cut above previous ones have been made with liquid yeast.

Probably needs it's own thread, where children, the infirm, the lily-livered and easily offended are barred.

 

[Leon103]

It would seem your beer is inconsistent because your process is inconsistent.

 

[Clarence]

All of the best beers iv made including a recent lager that was a real cut above previous ones have been made with liquid yeast.

Quite a number of newer craft and micro breweries use dried yeast. US-05 being a popular one. Takes the risk out of pitching if you can't afford to run to a yeast lab.

I prefer dried yeasts. Far too much water in beer anyway and nothing wrong with soaking it up a bit.

 

[The Baron]

Probably needs it's own thread, where children, the infirm, the lily-livered and easily offended are barred.

I think we have all seen that thread before, they never end well :tinhat:

 

[Sadfield]

You're barred.

 

[MashBag]

I am . Kind of . -Ish . Some's been better than others ,it has to be said. I'm about 35 or so brews in , but always feel things could be better , especially when compared to the commercials I drink . Citra , Punk , Hazy Jane , Sam Smith's bitter , but mostly the hoppy stuff. I always seem to end up with very 'thin' tasting beer , not short of IBu's , but lacking the depyh of flavour I crave . Typical brewday sketch along the lines of;
5kg pale,
half K of some kind of Caramalt , ,
maybe a handful of black malt , just to add a bit of colour and use up dregs of what's left .
Occasionally , the Cara is split with aome Pilsner , Lager or whatever on hand as a 'use up' grain.
The mash has varied between an hour and hour and half , once tried about 2 hours.
Boils between an hour and hour and half. I've tried mash temps from 64 degrees to 68 degrees , and all manner of rests in between .
Most hop additions are what you may term 'late' , but usually some bittering added near the start of boil .Dry hopping is usually done after a couple of weeks , when in secondary. Fave hops being Citra , Amarillo , and needless to say all the 'C' varieties. Whilst still fermenting, the hop aroma is all there , and often the beer tastes damn good when swigging the hydrometer samples. But it's still a ways to go in gravity, It seems the more it ages ,the 'thinner' it gets. When kegging, it's already gone past the stage I consider it's best , flavour-wise , and gravity is still maybe 1.022 or thereabouts. I use Hambleton Bard pressure barrels, as I have heaps of 'em , and 2 will fit in my 'Ferment-O-Fridge' . I have had better results with recipe kits from Brew UK. , but it seems they've gone ****-up , which is a shame , as I always had great service from them .
I usually go to secondry when the Krausen has subsided mostly , maybe around a week or so. I ferment at various temps between 18C and 21C.

Has anyone any ideas where I might adjust my , er , I hesitate to call it technique' , but for want of a better yerm that will have to suffice.

I am going to agree with the others.
Do your water. I struggled with water chemistry but Murphy's blurb made it easy. Maltmiller do their AMS & DWB. It really made the difference between "OK" and "wow"

While you are online to MM, find a recipe kit you like and buy a slack handful, (Clint is right) only by repeating the same recipe a few times, changing JUST ONE THING each time will you get to see what effects you have.

Other than that. Takes notes and taste everything all the way through all the time.

IT will come.

 

[MashBag]

Ps I am barred too

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Agree with others about water treatment. No need to get too complicated.

If you always keg your beer, the other thing I would suggest is to try bottling some. I know many (most?) on here swear by kegging, but for me my bottled beer tastes better. Next brew you could just do a few pints extra and bottle those to see.