Anyone brewing with Crisp Chevallier malt?

[Sadfield]

Well, you said it! Much of the time when Chevallier barley malt was king, much mashing was still done by the old multiple mash system (no sparge) and at much higher temperatures; not "single infusion". And, most importantly, for much longer and probably with much longer periods of mixing ("mashing"!).

And you probably used a dextrin happy yeast, even before adding "I'll eat anything" "Brett".

We weren't always so lazy (says me, the prime example of laziness) as to expect 60 minutes of mash will be enough.


[EDIT: Actually, it had always troubled me that Victorians got lowish FGs from high-temperature mashes, I hadn't considered their Brett infected wooden casks until unthinkingly writing out the above response.]

Recipes suggest that Tetley, Truman, Younger et al had all were Infusion mashing and sparging around the 1850's for some beers, and chevallier was only introduced in the 1820s and was used for over a century IIRC. The point being, mashing practices changed, but the malt didn't.

 

[An Ankoù]

I use Chevallier a lot, now. It's a lovely malt rich and full to start with while some of that richness and fullness mellows down with age. I find it much "maltier" than MO although I haven't tried the Crisp's floor malted MO yet. It can handle a lot more IBUs than other malts as it seems to reduce the bitterness of the beer. I have never had an issue with clarity, but I wouldn't expect to with an "ale" malt. I've used two other "heritage" malts from Crisp's: Plumage Archer and Hanà and I've only used these once so far. The first was for my "Proper English Lager" because of it's very light colour and the second in a Bohemian Lager; both throw a light chill haze which disappears as the beer warms a little. I read on one of the Crisp's websites that Hanà is better for a stepped mash and it may be that Plumage Archer would, too, if I'm going to chill the resulting beer. But I really don't see the need for a protein rest with Chevallier. For those who haven't tried it, I'd recommend it. It's a lovely malt and quickly becoming my favourite (apart from the premium price, of course).

 

[MrRook]

I use Chevallier a lot, now. It's a lovely malt rich and full to start with while some of that richness and fullness mellows down with age. I find it much "maltier" than MO although I haven't tried the Crisp's floor malted MO yet. It can handle a lot more IBUs than other malts as it seems to reduce the bitterness of the beer. I have never had an issue with clarity, but I wouldn't expect to with an "ale" malt. I've used two other "heritage" malts from Crisp's: Plumage Archer and Hanà and I've only used these once so far. The first was for my "Proper English Lager" because of it's very light colour and the second in a Bohemian Lager; both throw a light chill haze which disappears as the beer warms a little. I read on one of the Crisp's websites that Hanà is better for a stepped mash and it may be that Plumage Archer would, too, if I'm going to chill the resulting beer. But I really don't see the need for a protein rest with Chevallier. For those who haven't tried it, I'd recommend it. It's a lovely malt and quickly becoming my favourite (apart from the premium price, of course).

Where are you buying it? Shop around? Here in the States only a few shops carry it and I found it at one shop for a price pretty close to other British base malts and one other at nearly a dollar higher.

 

[foxbat]

Where are you buying it? Shop around? Here in the States only a few shops carry it and I found it at one shop for a price pretty close to other British base malts and one other at nearly a dollar higher.

Have you tried a brew with it yet?

 

[peebee]

I'm not going to "like" @An Ankoù's post 'cos it might help encourage a shortage of Chevallier barley malt. I could resort to "panic buying" like earlier this year, but I've go over 25kg of the stuff as it is (plus a whole load of made beers like the "Black's 1835 Brown Stout" clone at 7.5-8% ABV).

 

[An Ankoù]

I'm not going to "like" @An Ankoù's post 'cos it might help encourage a shortage of Chevallier barley malt. I could resort to "panic buying" like earlier this year, but I've go over 25kg of the stuff as it is (plus a whole load of made beers like the "Black's 1835 Brown Stout" clone at 7.5-8% ABV).

Yeah. In retrospect, it's 'orrible stuff. Don't touch it with a barge pole. It's full of weevils and birdie-poos.

I did my panic buying ealier in the year, too. Just after I'd asked Jonathan to quote for a bag instead of single kilos. I wanted some hops and thought "well, I might as well get them to chuck a bag of Chevallier in, too!"

Black's Brown Stout. I made some of that and had forgotten about it. Looking at my notes, I had I taste in March. I'm going to look for the rest of it. I recall, that I got a second gyle from the malt and called it black's mild. i don't remember finishing that off, wither. Thanks @peebee .

 

[An Ankoù]

Black's Brown Stout. I made some of that and had forgotten about it. Looking at my notes, I had I taste in March. I'm going to look for the rest of it. I recall, that I got a second gyle from the malt and called it black's mild. i don't remember finishing that off, wither. Thanks @peebee .

Deep joy. Fanfares of heavenly trumpets. 12 pints and 10 half-litres discovered in the dusty recesses where Aragog and his mates lurk. Haven't found the mild yet, though. I think I only had a dozen bottles; I must have drunk them.

 

[MrRook]

Have you tried a brew with it yet?

Not yet. I am considering getting some in my next order; probably early in the new year when my current stash of supplies runs out.

 

[peebee]

Deep joy. Fanfares of heavenly trumpets. 12 pints and 10 half-litres discovered in the dusty recesses where Aragog and his mates lurk. Haven't found the mild yet, though. I think I only had a dozen bottles; I must have drunk them.

Getting off track here, so I'll post you a couple of "off-site" links to cover the historical malt emulations I'm working on and some interesting "table beer" I've been looking at instead of "Mild" (it's actually a porter, not a mild ale, but for many folk the differentiation doesn't exist; it does but that's another story).

… Finally: Grubbing about in Ron's work turned up the likes of "1804 Barclay Perkins Table Beer". Only OG about 1.030 and IBUs less than 20. Apparently brewed to fit in to the low tax bracket, although Ron speculates it could be used to "water down" the Porter sold in unscrupulous Pubs. No black malt (not invented) but lots of brown and amber malt with the pale (about 1:1:1). Look great to try my emulated malts on! Drunk "mild" (unaged) but these "Table Porters" were in no way "mild ales": Don't make that tempting connection. (In his books, but also at Shut up about Barclay Perkins).

The recipe in "The Home Brewer's Guide to Vintage Beer" book (pg 42) is preferred 'cos at 1.030 it's stronger .

The "emulations" are linked >here< and might need extra description to be usable (work-in-progress). The calculator section is pre-loaded with malt for 1804 Barclay Perkins TT (Porter), a time when there was no black malt, also dug out by Ron Pattinson (also pg 42 of "The Home Brewer's Guide to Vintage Beer").

I do use Chevallier barley malt in malt emulations for the late Georgian recipes (pre-dating Chevallier's availability) because it probably has qualities akin to malt of that time, which modern malts won't have.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Where are you buying it? Shop around? Here in the States only a few shops carry it and I found it at one shop for a price pretty close to other British base malts and one other at nearly a dollar higher.

Remember that a lot more of what you pay is for transport, which is the same per unit weight regardless of quality. Whereas we pay less overall, but there's more of a range of prices depending on quality etc. So for instance, just looking at the Malt Miller, which puts service ahead of having the absolute lowest prices (and around double what you'd pay wholesale), you'd pay £31.25/25kg for standard pale or lager malt, £33.25 for their regular Otter, and £44.75 for Chevallier. Which if I've got my sums right is the equivalent of US$0.77/lb, US$0.82/lb and an outrageous US$1.11/lb respectively.

 

[peebee]

I do use Chevallier barley malt in malt emulations for the late Georgian recipes (pre-dating Chevallier's availability) because it probably has qualities akin to malt of that time, which modern malts won't have.

Should really enhance that statement to show what I mean: This is output from a TiltPi of a current Brew ...

I was aiming for a FG around 1.018-20. That's quite high. Many on this forum would proclaim it has "stuck". Hitting that target is fairly easy using an old "landrace" breed of barley (Chevallier) together with some mucking about with mash times and temperature.

(Okay, so my first attempt really did get "stuck", but if you don't have "disasters" you can't be learning? Not really a "disaster - I'm drinking it now - just not what I was expecting).

 

[foxbat]

Well the nice helpful people at Crisp got back to me regarding Chevalier and my question about whether it is suitable for a single infusion mash, and the answer was:

Chevalier is a fantastic malt but as its over 200 years old it need to be treated slightly different to modern malts. Single infusion temperatures are fine but I would recommend increasing the mash stand time by 15-30 mins. The grain structure is slightly more complex and the enzyme levels are lower than modern malts so conversion takes a little longer. The result is well worth the wait!

Sounds good to me and I think I'll buy a sack!

 

[Pennine]

Figured I would revive this thread rather than posting a new one.

I am trying to seek out some answers as to why I am not enjoying my two ales made with Chevallier? Is it COVID or am I a terrible brewer? I just don't understand.

Anyway with both batches all I can taste is this overwhelming and astringent raw grain flavour. I don't get any maltiness or sweetness from either. It's nothing like what others are describing. My winter warmer is going down the drain it's so bad.

Maybe I'm just crazy. Any ideas? Are there others like me?

 

[MrRook]

I recently brewed my 1800s replica porter and replaced 22%'of the base malt with chevalier. I'm very happy with the result and will use a larger % the next time I brew it.

 

[Clarence]

Figured I would revive this thread rather than posting a new one.

I am trying to seek out some answers as to why I am not enjoying my two ales made with Chevallier? Is it COVID or am I a terrible brewer? I just don't understand.

Anyway with both batches all I can taste is this overwhelming and astringent raw grain flavour. I don't get any maltiness or sweetness from either. It's nothing like what others are describing. My winter warmer is going down the drain it's so bad.

Maybe I'm just crazy. Any ideas? Are there others like me?

Hang on to them, Pennine. I find that Chevallier needs to mature longer than beers made with other malts, it's quite heavy n flavour and it seems to strip the bitterness out of the hops. It's quite an odd malt. Much prefer Plumage Archer when ot comes to heritage malts