Any advice/ideas for more advanced brews?

[rbgd99]

Hi all,

I am fairly new to homebrew but have got really into it very quickly. I am currently on my 5th kit and have been really pleased with the results. However, I am now wanting to challenge myself more and am wondering what to try next and so wondered if anyone had any advice on how best to proceed.

I have limited facilities available and so do not want to venture into all grain just yet. I have heard about grain steeping, mini-mash and partial mash but not quite sure where to start.

I want to start developing my own recipes, rather than simply adding water to kits.
Initially, for simplicity I like the idea of augmenting kits in some way to customise the flavour, but not sure where to start.

I welcome any advice or ideas on what step to take next to add complexity to my brews.

At this stage, I am basically just looking for ideas so am keen to hear others' experience.

Many thanks!

 

[GlentoranMark]

All grain isn't as hard as you think.

Clibit's AG Guide

That's how I got into it less than a year ago. You should have most of what you need already.

 

[wfr42]

I tried the link above, tried it a 2nd time afree making some mistakes and just bought a peco boiler for biab...

Before that I tweaked a scottish heavy kit with some treacle and a dry hop and was very tempted by others cooper stout additions (have a search, there's loads) or the coopers 3 can Russian imperial stout...

Good luck with whatever you try.

 

[clibit]

I'm obviously going to agree with Glentoran but a stepping stone would be to use very bland pale kits and adapt them with steeping grains and hops. You can convert a bland kit into virtually anything, bitter, brown ale, Porter, stout etc. And you learn about grains and hops and make much better beer than a kit will usually provide.

 

[Bigcol49]

Before that I tweaked a scottish heavy kit with some treacle and a dry hop

Hi!
I picked up a Young's Harvest Scottish Heavy kit at an auction for �£4, added two jars of Potter's malt extract (Holland & Barrett penny sale) and a tin of treacle.
It's a lovely brew, buy I think that food-grade malt extracts give a treacle flavour anyway, so I may have overdone it. Nevertheless, it's drinkable and is being imbibed!

 

[HisDudeness]

I'm obviously going to agree with Glentoran but a stepping stone would be to use very bland pale kits and adapt them with steeping grains and hops. You can convert a bland kit into virtually anything, bitter, brown ale, Porter, stout etc. And you learn about grains and hops and make much better beer than a kit will usually provide.

Agree with Clibit this is a good intermediate step and one I have used myself before moving to AG, I have used basic pale ale and pilsner kits with steeping grains/partial mashes to create APAs, IPAs, Wheat beer, Raspberry Beer and a German Dunkel. The beer was great and a marked improvement on standalone kit beer.

 

[Leon103]

If you want to try your own recipes then there is only one winner AG.

 

[fourbob]

+1 for GlentoranMark's reply. If you've got a big pot (and preferably a muslin bag to fit it) then you can start AG brewing - and Clibit's introduction makes it as simple as possible. I can't recommend it enough.

Having said that, I'd done loads of kits before I took the plunge. I've now made about 10 AG brews - I continue to do kits to keep up the stocks, but AG is more fun and you get better beer.

The top of the range kits (Festival, Youngs American) introduce dry hopping - so if you've done any of those kits, basically you know how to dry hop! I don't mess about with these kits when I do them - don't see the point of paying premium prices for a quality product only to change them. But I'll pick up a couple of Wherry kits every time there's a sale on at Wilkos and chuck in extra hops and DME. I find that that invariably produces a decent brew, if I can keep my mitts off it for 4-6 weeks after bottling :whistle:.

But of the 8 AGs I've tasted so far (1 still conditioning, 1 still fermenting) 7 of them have been better than any kits I've done, and better than many pub pints. And the price and variety of grain, hops and yeast that's available on line make the possibilities endless.

Whichever route you choose, eventually you'll succumb and wonder why you didn't convert to the dark side earlier!

 

[BeardySi]

You basically described me 9 months back. I never felt satisfied making kits cos it's basically someone else's beer.
Personally I'd say don't bother with kitbashing and go straight to doing your own thing. Extract brewing gives you far more control over the finished product and was (to me) much more satisfying. There's lots of recipes out there to start with or you can use one of the many brewing apps to start from scratch. A few of those will give you plenty of practice boiling, bottling, cleaning, dry hopping etc.
Another bonus of extract is you can boil with half the water for the finished batch (with a bit more hops) and top it up in the fermenter, so you can still make bigger batches without having to get all the kit to make big AG batches all at once...

 

[rbgd99]

Thanks everyone for the replies, I really appreciate the advice! It sounds like I might have to give all grain a try then. I was initially perturbed by the prospect of all grain as it sounds very complex and requires a lot more equipment than I have, but looking at the posts and linked post with video, it doesn't sound so scary anymore.
I think I'll buy a ~15l stock pot and start with all grain brews but use half the water, then top up with water to fill the fermenting vessel.
As a practice run I like the idea of a 5 or 10l batch (as in the attached link) but my concern with that is what to ferment it in, I have a 25l vessel, will there not be too much air in that for a 5l batch, and thus introduce more risk of infection or oxidisation?

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[brumbrew]

5Ltr batch, I would say, I don't know.

10 litre is doable. Just don't lift the lid unless you really have to.

The C02 acts as a gas blanket over the beer and stops the bad stuff getting in and taking over.

I did stove top, then BIAB with coats/blankets, temp readings every 2 mins, spilling wort and getting burned :-( lots of worrying at first.

This is by no means what your brew day will be like first time. If you just put your mind to rest knowing that;

It really isn't that hard to make good beer with just pots, pans and buckets ;-)

 

[cheapbrew]

Welcome, it sounds like the lads have talked you into AG already ha ha ha,
my last batch was almost 14L using a 15L pot filled to the brim along with a couple of litres or so in another pot for topping up as it boiled off, but 10L batches are more manageable in 15L pot

 

[dad_of_jon]

I'm fine with extract- although it costs more than ag - it's quicker. less steps.

I do 15-20 min boils with hops and sometimes do speciality grains. A 6 litre boil can easily be topped up to 20-23 litres in the fv. You can make lots of different styles with extract although clearly with AG you have even more possibilities than with kits -or extract brews.

I've not worn out all the combinations with extract - you can have very light dme to very dark or wheat too, coupled with all the different hops and different dried yeasts and other fermentables you can still do a huge variety of brews.

I've found candi sugar , golden syrup , maple syrup, treacle can make a big a difference in brews as choosing different hops and yeast can.

Plus I hate disposing of large amounts of used grain! - I don't have chickens or pets to eat it up :-?

But it depends on your priorities and what matters most to you.:drink:

 

[BeardySi]

Plus I hate disposing of large amounts of used grain! - I don't have chickens or pets to eat it up :-?

I put a post on freecycle and got a whole heap of folks looking for it...

 

[rbgd99]

Thanks again for the advice. Although I'm still a little confused as to how to start with either extract or AG. Is anyone able to provide me with a simple, brief step-by-step guide as to how I could perform both an extract and AG brew using a 15l pot and 25l fv please? Please excuse my ignorance, the world of home brew beyond kits is enticing, but also a little intimidating as I don't know where to start. Perhaps even a simple recipe if possible. I'm a big fan of hoppy IPAs and golden ales, but not a fan of dark ales and stouts so am wanting to to stick to the paler and more bitter beers. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!

 

[Doglaner]

I started AG using a small stove top pot, and followed Clibits simple AG brew. I also did extract brews in a small stove top pot, too, which meant a boil and hop additions at various stages.

I think the key thing to remember is that you are fundamentally just aiming for a set volume of ferment able liquid in the FV. Where the fermentables come from is the main difference between the various methods.

1) A kit, where all the malt has already been extracted from the grain, boiled with hops to give you the bitterness and aroma and then reduced to the resulting treacly goodness.

2) Extract brews, where you get the fermentables from un-hopped extract, but do a boil, too, with hop additions to add the bitterness and aromas you, or the recipe designer, want. It's the un-hopped bit that took me a while to find out about. There are various types of malt extract. Tins varying from light to dark, or powdered (LME, DME or Spraymalt). Just look around at the recipes and use what you have available, or shop online. There are some great extract kits available which will suit a small pot and larger fermenters.

With extract brews you can also steep grains in a muslin bag before adding the ME and boiling, which can give you extra layers of flavour, and many of the extract kits will have these in. It's how I moved on from kits and I learned a huge amount by doing it.

3) AG is where you extract the fermentables from the base ingredients. It is the method which gives you most control, and which opens up the widest range of possibilities, but it does need some extra equipment to do full 20+litre brews. HOWEVER it is great fun and eminently possible to do on a stove top with smaller volumes, say 5-7 litres, by using a mash bag for the mash, and sparging this with a few jugs of water before removing the bag containing the spent grains and then boiling as per the extract method. Doing this is a great way to learn the method, study more about why you do what you do, manage temperature and the reasoning behind why temperature is important and make mistakes without too much waste. I also found that it helped me to organise my gear and collect all the little bits together that I am starting to use now that I've built a 23l AG set up and used it for the first time.

I hope this helps, and would simply add - go for it!

Dog.

 

[rbgd99]

Hi guys,

Thanks everyone for the advice. I just wanted to let you know that I just finished my first extract brew. I decided to try extract before AG, bought a 15l stockpot and made a 10l batch. I will keep you posted on the results.

1 question though, a probably a very simple one but wanted to clarify, am I able to top up a 10l boil with water to make a 5gallon batch? I imagine i would just need to upscale the quantities of everything except the water, i.e. 2.3x extract & hops so it is a concentrated boil, then top up to 23l in the FV. Is this correct? Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

 

[wfr42]

There's dilution calculators I think MyQul uses a dilution method. You may have a quite a thick undiluted wort to work with before diluting.

 

[MyQul]

As Wft say, I make a concentrated wort which I dilute in the FV. I have a 19L pot which I can make 23L/24L brews with. I think you could manage about 18L give or take a L.

This is the dilution calc I use
http://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/

 

[dad_of_jon]

Hi guys,

Thanks everyone for the advice. I just wanted to let you know that I just finished my first extract brew. I decided to try extract before AG, bought a 15l stockpot and made a 10l batch. I will keep you posted on the results.

1 question though, a probably a very simple one but wanted to clarify, am I able to top up a 10l boil with water to make a 5gallon batch? I imagine i would just need to upscale the quantities of everything except the water, i.e. 2.3x extract & hops so it is a concentrated boil, then top up to 23l in the FV. Is this correct? Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

A 15 litre stock pot would easily hold 6 litres of water and 3 kg of extract you can do a 15 min boil in it use high AA hops to get more bitterness in less time and space, let me know what you'd like to brew I may have a recipe to suit.