Amalyse for stuck fermentation

[Stephenj]

Anyone on the kveik thread might have seem I had a rye ipa stuck at 1028 somehow using that yeast. Anyways I tried temp raise from about 32 to 38c without success, I then added a 1 litre starter of us05 and a good stir and it's still at 1028. Someone on the kveik thread suggested amalyse, my question is how much to put in a 20l brew?

 

[RichK]

I've just had a similarly stuck Extra stout. I put 1g in a 12 litre batch based on it being a 2g pack for 23l. It certainly worked & came down to 1003! Not tried it yet (too soon) so it may be too dry. I suspect my mash temp was too high (ASI couldn't find my thermometer so had to wing it).

 

[rank_frank]

The trouble with adding amylase in the fermentation bin is that it's an enzyme that is not destroyed by the process of converting the sugars. So, given time, any amount will convert all of the sugars in the beer. Adding more will just speed the process up.

If you want an amount of residual sugars then you may be better off with adding an attenuative yeast. But be careful, I've just done this with a stuck ipa. I added Mangrove Jack's M29 French Saison and it's slowly chewed its way down to 1.000 as of this morning and it's still fermenting.

 

[Stephenj]

Adding a 3rd yeast?

 

[BeerCat]

What was your OG again? I only have experience of using amylase 300 and used 2ml recently in a 9l batch of RIS and that finished at 1022. Was a big beer though and may of finished higher without. When i added 5ml to a 28l lager it brought it down to 1000. This was during active fermentation though, have not tried it once its finished.
I read about people making a small starter with wine yeast and amylase and adding that.
If its too sweet to drink you don't have much to lose. You could always add some lactose if its too dry.

 

[Stephenj]

What was your OG again? I only have experience of using amylase 300 and used 2ml recently in a 9l batch of RIS and that finished at 1022. Was a big beer though and may of finished higher without. When i added 5ml to a 28l lager it brought it down to 1000. This was during active fermentation though, have not tried it once its finished.
I read about people making a small starter with wine yeast and amylase and adding that.
If its too sweet to drink you don't have much to lose. You could always add some lactose if its too dry.

1058 start. Taste wise, it is a little sweet but nothing major and palatable. I'm lactose intolerant.

 

[Ajhutch]

You could replace the lactose from BeerCat’s suggestion with maltodextrin and the rest of his advice would still stand. Alternatively as it’s an IPA you could try an extra charge of dry hops, this can lead to further attenuation but if nothing else it would mask a bit of sweetness. Good luck.

 

[Stephenj]

I was gonna hit it with a healthy dose of Amarillo DH when it was finished. Will this make much or any difference to FG?

If using amylase do I need to make a starter with another load of yeast or just chuck it in? Want to get this finished asap as need the fermentibg freezer for another brew

 

[Ajhutch]

I’m afraid I don’t know details on dry hops causing further fermentation, as the saying goes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I believe though that there is some evidence of an amylase or similar enzyme in hops. @Sadfield I think I’ve seen you post about this in the past, have you got anything more concrete?!

 

[BeerCat]

You could make a 500ml starter or just add dry yeast and amylase. I think i read people just add amylase and stir it with success. Some restart yeast has it in i think. There is not really a massive amount of info available on it, have looked but picked up very little.
I am drinking a beer now that finished at 0998 and its not really dry like you might think. Its not puckering or dry on the finish, not really comparable to dry cider or wine.

 

[Sadfield]

The trouble with adding amylase in the fermentation bin is that it's an enzyme that is not destroyed by the process of converting the sugars. So, given time, any amount will convert all of the sugars in the beer. Adding more will just speed the process up.

If you want an amount of residual sugars then you may be better off with adding an attenuative yeast. But be careful, I've just done this with a stuck ipa. I added Mangrove Jack's M29 French Saison and it's slowly chewed its way down to 1.000 as of this morning and it's still fermenting.

In essence, adding a Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus yeast such as M29 is the same as adding Amylase as it can produce extracellular glucoamylase, and the reason why we see +90% attenuation.

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Saccharomyces#Saccharomyces_cerevisiae_var._diastaticus

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Saccharomyces#Mangrove_Jack.27s_Dry_Yeasts

I’m afraid I don’t know details on dry hops causing further fermentation, as the saying goes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I believe though that there is some evidence of an amylase or similar enzyme in hops. @Sadfield I think I’ve seen you post about this in the past, have you got anything more concrete?!

I haven't really looked further into it, however there is mention of it in these blogs, with links to explore.

http://www.browneandbitter.com/2014/08/a-quick-question-dry-hops-and-diastatic.html

http://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2018/04/dry-hopping-and-visit-to-lupofresh.html

 

[MickDundee]

I have somehow managed to **** up my mash temperature (on a brew that I’m doing for a friend’s stag do as well). If it ends up finishing super high will amalyse enzyme bring it down to a normal level?