Am I wasting my time with lager?

[bbslaw]

I picked up one of those Young's harvest Pilsners for £2.74 in November. I've just put it on with 1kg of extra light spraymalt and 500g brewing sugar. I used Saflager S-23 yeast. My plan is to try to recreate a temperature profile for lager using only the ambient temperatures around my house. I have no brew fridge and am not going to get one any time soon, hence the need to do it around the house.
So, my plan is: 1 day at 20oC in the spare room to wake up the yeast (S-23 packet says to pitch two packets if using lower temperatures - I don't have two packets, so I figure 1 day at room temperature should help get the culture going). Then 3 weeks or so under my stairs, which is quite stable at about 14oC - basically until FG is reached. Then 2 days at room temperature again for the diacetyl rest. Then take off into a secondary FV and 'lager' in my conservatory for a couple of weeks before bottling. The conservatory is similar to outside ambient temperature, so that'll depend on what weather we have in a month's time. If it's warm, I may have to bring it back under the stairs.
How does this plan sound? Any major flaws, any steps I could omit?
I wonder if I'm trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear using good yeast and spraymalt with the Young's kit, but I want the best beer I can get with the materials at my disposal.
Thoughts appreciated :thumb:

 

[graysalchemy]

Not a lager brewer but my thoughts are have you thought of making a starter first to wake the yeast up, I don't know if fermenting at 20c in the initial stages would be detrimental to the beer.

If your conservatory has a cold concrete or tiled floor even better, that should keep the temp down further. :thumb:

 

[Aleman]

Sounds Ok to me, and should produce something quite lager like.

I wouldn't bother making a starter with dried yeast (after all 23L with a packet of dried yeast IS A STARTER).

I would keep the wort at 20C only to the point that you can see signs of fermentation on the top of the wort. Once you are at that point start getting it cold . . . it may slow the fermentation down, but the healthy yeast will clear up after themselves better.

S23 is not the cleanest of lager yeasts unless you pitch big, but even with one packet it does produce a reasonable beer even with 'simple' temperature control like you are proposing.

 

[MattN]

I bought quite a few of these kits when they were on offer. I only bought a couple of the lagers as I don't drink that much lager. I put one together for some people that were coming over at Christmas time and they loved it.

I didn't do anything particularly out of the norm with this kit. Mixed to 21 litres, 1kg suger, two weeks at 18c, 3 or 4 days at 16c (with finings) batch primed to 2.4v using the yeast that came with the kit.

I couldn't fault it in any way and I'm gutted that I didn't buy a few more.

Anyway good luck with it, I'm sure it will turn out great and it looks like Grays and Aleman have answerd your query.

Matt :

 

[winelight]

I wouldn't bother making a starter with dried yeast (after all 23L with a packet of dried yeast IS A STARTER).

I would keep the wort at 20C only to the point that you can see signs of fermentation on the top of the wort. Once you are at that point start getting it cold . . .

Yes, this.

For mine, fermentation signs were visible in 15 minutes (I posted a pic here) so do keep an eye on it and be ready to start cooling.

 

[rpt]

When I use S-23 I pitch at 20C and drop the temperature down to 12C after 24 hours. Has always worked well. You can probably miss out the diacetyl rest.

 

[bbslaw]

Thanks for the replies and support everybody. Sounds like I'm on the rightish track. This was all worked out thanks to learnings from this forum, so double-thanks! Glad to hear the kit is OK in itself; I wish I'd bought a few more at that price too! :

 

[ian808]

I have been doing the same process making a coopers european lager using spare room that we hang washing in (window always open) kept it around ghe 14 temp sometimes down to 12. Then out to garage for a few weeks. Will be bottling first one soon. Making a few now so got some for summer here's hoping there pretty good

 

[winelight]

I am going to bottle mine tomorrow (if I get around to it, otherwise Monday). I used that other yeast (going from memory here - is it W-34/70? Something like that) and it's been in the fermenting fridge at 1C for a month.

 

[bbslaw]

The lager seems to be fermenting well, unfortunately a bit warmer than I was planning. It's between 14 and 16 under the stairs. Not a lot I can do about that as there's nowhere else for it to go. It's been kicking out sulphurous smells, which I was sort of expecting with this yeast.
I was thinking about pimping it up a bit by dry hopping - I'm aiming more for a Staropramen taste than a C@rling/F0sters taste. If I got some Saaz pellets and threw them in, would this help improve the aroma? If so, how much should I add to 20l - would 50g be sufficient? Cheers

 

[MattN]

So the lager is fermenting well is it?

 

[ian808]

The lager seems to be fermenting well, unfortunately a bit warmer than I was planning. It's between 14 and 16 under the stairs. Not a lot I can do about that as there's nowhere else for it to go. It's been kicking out sulphurous smells, which I was sort of expecting with this yeast.
I was thinking about pimping it up a bit by dry hopping - I'm aiming more for a Staropramen taste than a C@rling/F0sters taste. If I got some Saaz pellets and threw them in, would this help improve the aroma? If so, how much should I add to 20l - would 50g be sufficient? Cheers

I dry hopped with 100 grams of saaz for 6 days I have another brew on now which I plan 50 grams of saaz. I've no idea how they will turn out just have to wait and see

 

[jphil123]

The lager seems to be fermenting well, unfortunately a bit warmer than I was planning. It's between 14 and 16 under the stairs. Not a lot I can do about that as there's nowhere else for it to go. It's been kicking out sulphurous smells, which I was sort of expecting with this yeast.
I was thinking about pimping it up a bit by dry hopping - I'm aiming more for a Staropramen taste than a C@rling/F0sters taste. If I got some Saaz pellets and threw them in, would this help improve the aroma? If so, how much should I add to 20l - would 50g be sufficient? Cheers

I dry hopped with 100 grams of saaz for 6 days I have another brew on now which I plan 50 grams of saaz. I've no idea how they will turn out just have to wait and see

Would be interested to hear how the 100g Saaz dry hop turns out. In a lager? I'm also experimenting with dry hopping lager kits with Saaz. I started out cautiously with just 12.5g (pellets) for 2 weeks. As I couldn't notice much of it in my Brewferm Pils, I added 50g to my BlackRock Pilsener Blonde that I bottled this weekend. Too early to tell, but the sample I took, had a bit more hop aroma but not all that much. So perhaps 100g is better?

 

[winelight]

It seems the general opinion is that if you're dry hopping anything, 100g is what to aim for. I've tried 50g and doesn't make much impact, 100g is better.

 

[ian808]

The lager seems to be fermenting well, unfortunately a bit warmer than I was planning. It's between 14 and 16 under the stairs. Not a lot I can do about that as there's nowhere else for it to go. It's been kicking out sulphurous smells, which I was sort of expecting with this yeast.
I was thinking about pimping it up a bit by dry hopping - I'm aiming more for a Staropramen taste than a C@rling/F0sters taste. If I got some Saaz pellets and threw them in, would this help improve the aroma? If so, how much should I add to 20l - would 50g be sufficient? Cheers

I dry hopped with 100 grams of saaz for 6 days I have another brew on now which I plan 50 grams of saaz. I've no idea how they will turn out just have to wait and see

Would be interested to hear how the 100g Saaz dry hop turns out. In a lager? I'm also experimenting with dry hopping lager kits with Saaz. I started out cautiously with just 12.5g (pellets) for 2 weeks. As I couldn't notice much of it in my Brewferm Pils, I added 50g to my BlackRock Pilsener Blonde that I bottled this weekend. Too early to tell, but the sample I took, had a bit more hop aroma but not all that much. So perhaps 100g is better?

As I wasn't sure about how much to do and never done anything with hops before I just used the whole lot that I'd bought. It has been out in the cold for nearly 2 weeks so will be bottling soon but not planning drinking any for a good few months, if it's any good i'll put a review up on it

 

[bbslaw]

Thanks for the advice everybody. I went for 70g in the end - can't really explain my logic apart from I wanted to keep a few back for another beer I've got planned. Will let you know how it turns out.

 

[ian808]

that's what I'm planning with next one, due to hop this week was thinking of sticking some into the bitter I have in other FV just for something different

 

[ericmark]

Thanks for your report. I also decided to try one Lager but made a lot of mistakes. Did not let it get well and truly started before moving to garage at around 10 degs C and it stalled for a week. Re-heated to 18 degs and with coats on allowed to cool again and it did start but although still going at 12 degs at 10 degs again stopped. Switched heater on for 3 hours and running again (took 30 hours to reach 18 degs) idea was once going just leave it do it's own thing, can afford for fermentor tied up for a month as run short of bottles, but then want to start again with normal bitter. No fridge so want to be finished before warm weather comes.

Considering using demijohns for secondary fermentation to free up fermentor.

 

[ian808]

Don't know if there still got sale on but Wilco had FV for 6 quid I bought one didn't need it but cheap price got it anyway now using it and need another. Can't have to many of a good thing

 

[IOMMick]

Aye, 7 quid for a fermenter, go nuts and keep yourself overstocked. Since I got myself a couple of spare FVs I've stopped messing about so much, in that I actually allow the thing to ferment out and cold crash to solidify the trub before bottling.