Alpha Acids and Hop Flavour

[NottsBrew]

I am interested in the relationship of alpha acids and the flavours that are often listed with them. I understand that there are different alpha acids and that they have different kinds of bitterness - humulone for instance has a smooth bitterness, whereas cohumulone has a sharper bitterness - but what of the other kinds of flavours.

Let's take Admiral hops, for instance. Admiral hops are said to have an orangey-citrus flavour. They are also listed as bittering hops. If they are listed as bittering hops, I take it that they are supposed to be boiled for a full hour. Am I to assume that the orangey-citrus flavour is still going to be there after this much time? If it is, would this suggest that these flavours are derived from the alpha acids? Or is it the case that Admiral hops can be used as late addition hops?

I ask this question because many of the hops classed as bittering hops are listed as possessing these subtler flavours I wouldn't normally associate with alpha acids.

Thanks in advance for any help with this issue.

 

[Gerryjo]

Alpha acids are extracted during the boiling of the wort.The longer the boil the more acid is extracted and less aroma/flavour.
Hence people boil for 90/60 mins.
Additionally adding hops at say 45/30/15 mins etc shall give less bitterness with the addition of more flavouring with less boiling and more aroma with less again.
Try a SMaSH brew single malt or light malt extract using only one type of hop for instance Cascade and this shall give you an indication of what you are using and why.
You can also repeat the SMaSH again altering time and quantity additions and compare.
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/58bee4d697fdf/beer-hop-chart.pdf
Check out the chart in the link.👍

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[monkier]

Now, i could be wrong on this so more learned home brewers please correct me...but...

Bitterness comes from the alpha acid content
Flavor and aroma comes from the hop oil content
As a boil continues more alpha acids are extracted from the hops and more oils are boiled off, hence why most bittering additions go in early in the boil and most flavor and aroma additions go in late as this is how you maintain the oils in your beer.

 

[NottsBrew]

I suppose the question is, do the orangey-citrus flavours disappear during a long boil. If so, it seems rather arbitrary to refer to Admiral hops as bittering hops.

 

[Braufather]

Is the Alfa acid more important than the actual hop?

If for instance a single hop recipe called for casade 6.6% hops. However you can only get 8.2% cascade but you can get Amarillo 6.6% hops. Could you just go with the Amarillo as a straight swap? And the beer will be balanced.

I realise you would get a different beer and flavour profile but would it still be the right balance for a single hop ale?

 

[Gerryjo]

Is the Alfa acid more important than the actual hop?

If for instance a single hop recipe called for casade 6.6% hops. However you can only get 8.2% cascade but you can get Amarillo 6.6% hops. Could you just go with the Amarillo as a straight swap? And the beer will be balanced.

I realise you would get a different beer and flavour profile but would it still be the right balance for a single hop ale?

For example.
6.6AA*25g/8.2AA=20.1g
Simply take the requested amount of AA then multiply by your amount then divide by your substitute and that should give you your bittering amount.[emoji106]

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[chuffer]

I'm not sure the two are always necessarily related. Looking at Greg Hughes home brew beer in the hops section, you can see hops listed with alpha acid range and flavour intensity 1-10), on there it shows that you can get a fair few varieties that have a high flavour intensity but have a low alpha acid % (e.g. Cascade, bobek, savinski) you'd probably use these as flavour but not bittering. Conversely, there are hops such as warrior with 13-15% alpha but has a fairly moderate flavour intensity. You mention admiral, that is a good example of a dual purpose hop which can be used either as a bittering hop (but if you do, the flavour will be boiled off) or can be used as a late addition to make the most of the flavour it offers

 

[Braufather]

Ok thanks guys, it was actually a recipe from gregs book. I couldn't decide between cascade or Amarillo but finally went for cascade. Ironic therefore to find that it was actually the Amarillo that matched the exact alpha for cascade in the recipe, whilst cascade didnt, which got me thinking.

So in short you can't just go the Alpha acid then for the reasons outlined by chuffed above, which I kind of suspected, so instead use gerryjos formula or software to adjust amounts.

Cheers.

 

[Braufather]

Just once more on this. Keeping with the 8.8 cascades. I am only going to correct the bittering volumes to maintaining the target IBU, and keep original volumes for late drops. Have I got that right?

 

[chesters-mild]

Good posts!
Funny, as I'd decided to do a SMASH brewday next Monday with Amarillo hops
It will be my 1st SMASH and should be an interesting experience
Cheers

 

[NottsBrew]

I'm not sure the two are always necessarily related. Looking at Greg Hughes home brew beer in the hops section, you can see hops listed with alpha acid range and flavour intensity 1-10), on there it shows that you can get a fair few varieties that have a high flavour intensity but have a low alpha acid % (e.g. Cascade, bobek, savinski) you'd probably use these as flavour but not bittering. Conversely, there are hops such as warrior with 13-15% alpha but has a fairly moderate flavour intensity. You mention admiral, that is a good example of a dual purpose hop which can be used either as a bittering hop (but if you do, the flavour will be boiled off) or can be used as a late addition to make the most of the flavour it offers

Thanks Chuffer. That answered my question. It seems that it depends on where you get your information from. The site I went to listed Admiral as a bittering hop. I suppose even bittering hops can be used as late edition hops.

 

[Dr_Unkenly]

Just once more on this. Keeping with the 8.8 cascades. I am only going to correct the bittering volumes to maintaining the target IBU, and keep original volumes for late drops. Have I got that right?

That's what I do.

 

[Dr_Unkenly]

Thanks Chuffer. That answered my question. It seems that it depends on where you get your information from. The site I went to listed Admiral as a bittering hop. I suppose even bittering hops can be used as late edition hops.

I often do this with Simcoe when making IPAs, even dry hop with it.

 

[monkier]

Thanks Chuffer. That answered my question. It seems that it depends on where you get your information from. The site I went to listed Admiral as a bittering hop. I suppose even bittering hops can be used as late edition hops.

Indeed they can, generally bittering hops tend to have subtle flavors and a low amount of aromatic oils. As a result when they're used early in the boil most of the flavors and aromats get boiled off leaving a 'clean' bitterness.

 

[Godsdog]

So reading this thread I have a question,I have a cornie full of black rock pale ale that says on the tin its got a moderate bitterness from selected nelson hops,tried it last night been kegged around 3 weeks and find the bitterness rather poor so how can I improve it? In my hop store I have Chinook azzaca ff7 cascade and some progress that I dried and frozen off the hop vine last year,tempted to go cascade and boil up for 5/10 mins in some of the beer and add it back to the keg.thoughts and suggestions most welcome

 

[chuffer]

So reading this thread I have a question,I have a cornie full of black rock pale ale that says on the tin its got a moderate bitterness from selected nelson hops,tried it last night been kegged around 3 weeks and find the bitterness rather poor so how can I improve it? In my hop store I have Chinook azzaca ff7 cascade and some progress that I dried and frozen off the hop vine last year,tempted to go cascade and boil up for 5/10 mins in some of the beer and add it back to the keg.thoughts and suggestions most welcome

If it's bitterness you seek then you'll prob get more bang for your buck with the chinook

 

[Gerryjo]

So reading this thread I have a question,I have a cornie full of black rock pale ale that says on the tin its got a moderate bitterness from selected nelson hops,tried it last night been kegged around 3 weeks and find the bitterness rather poor so how can I improve it? In my hop store I have Chinook azzaca ff7 cascade and some progress that I dried and frozen off the hop vine last year,tempted to go cascade and boil up for 5/10 mins in some of the beer and add it back to the keg.thoughts and suggestions most welcome

You would need to boil it for a while longer than that as when boiling your wort your bittering hops are added at the start of the boil.I would recommend 30 to 45 mins as all you will extract is more flavour/aroma at 5/10 mins.Boil up some LME/DME with some water adding the hops and cool then add to your own.

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