Allowing For Age Of Hops

[dan125]

This week's dilemma:

After making a few stronger beers of late I am planning on 2 of the next 3 being a bit weaker & loosely based on a Hophead recipe - pale malt, with a handful of caramalt, not very bitter, but with loads of late/dry hops.

For one of these brews I wanted to use some TnT hop pellets I impulse bought when shopping online with a supplier I hadn't used before.
I'd never seen this hop blend before, but I thought it might work well in a brew like this:-

Characterisitics: Explosive red berries, passionfruit and citrus.
Alpha acid 12.9%
Intensity: 7 (out of 10)

Intense sweet fruit aromas and flavours this hop blend can give more caramel and green fruit flavours if used in a cold infusion (dry hopping in the fermenter).

They didn't state the harvest year of any of their hops on the website and I was disappointed to find they were 2012 harvest when they arrived - especially considering the price I paid for them.
Due to the high alpha content my brewing software tells me I only need about 4g for bittering (assuming the alpha content is as stated on the pack), and obviously a little more or less makes a big impact on the IBU.

So I've been trying to find out some info about how to allow for the age of hops in a recipe. I couldn't find much in the forum archives, alougth I'm sure this must have been discussed before. But I did find this interesting calculator:

http://brewerslog.appspot.com/HopAlphaCalc

Although it varies from hops to hop & the TnT blend isn't on the list, this calculator is telling me that even if I store a 12% alpha hop at 0 deg C, in sealed vac packed barrier packaging, for 3 years, it will only have about 2-4% alpha remaining. Now I doubt that HB suppliers store hops in a freezer or even a fridge once the hops are vac packed. Which would mean that there is probably no alpha left to speak of - if the calculator is to be believed.

Sorry for the long winded approach, but the question is:

Do anyone adjust recipes for the age of the hops? And if so how?
:

 

[Leon103]

I don't adjust but tend to buy hops from the last harvest.

 

[Godfather50]

Very interesting question. Will be interested in any answers. In Radical Brewing, Randy Mosher has a table which categorises each hop according to the hops 'storage stability'. There are four categories from terrible to good. But I don't know how to apply this in recipe calculations. For my part if the hop is over one year old and is being used for aroma purposes I add about 1/3 to the amount. My beer tastes fine but I don't indulge in the double or triple IPA world.

 

[GHW]

Sorry no adjustment advice but I'd avoid using them, possibly send back if they weren't advertised as 2012. I used 2012 green bullet at the end of last year and they were obviously stale. The beer isn't terrible but has a noticeable aftertaste which I can only put down to the hop's age.

Like Leon I'm now more choosy about what harvest I'm buying. The Home Brew company state what year all their hops are from. Not all suppliers do that.

That said I read a brulosophy article where the guy made beer with 9 yo willamette hops and new hops and couldn't tell the difference. So You may be fine,might depend on how well and when they were packed. But you'll never know that...

 

[duncans]

I use older hops routinely, without adjustment. You can get some great deals from reliable suppliers.

The AA will have dropped but i never really noticed much difference.I guess i dont brew a lot of beer where bitterness is a critical element, i.e. bitters and ott west coast ipas.

Choose a beer style with low ibus and it's just the flavour component that matters and it should be fine. Think malt forward and yeast forward beers rather than bitterness forward (Dark British beers, Belgian beers, hoppy golden ales and such like). Some Belgian recipes require aged hops.

Never heard of TNT so can't say on that score.

 

[HisDudeness]

Beer smith has a calculator that works out AA reduction due to age and for most hops on its database will have the HSI (hop storage index) that gives an estimate of how much a particular variety loses over time. I have recently started using this as varieties that have poor storage qualities can lose a significant amount of AA over a year or more even under ideal storage conditions. I haven't checked but I'm guessing as it's blend it's harder to find a HSI value, in theory pellets store better than leaf (although this doesn't seem to be accounted for in the beer smith calculator and I don't know if this is quantified in any meaningful way elsewhere). So I think it's going to be quite hard to work out the current condition of your hops. All that aside anyone who is selling 2012 hops still even if they are in pellet form should be doing so at a very heavy discount if at all so personally I would be inclined to send them back if it was not made clear at sale that they were going to be that old.

 

[dan125]

Thanks everyone, and I did consider this:-

possibly send back if they weren't advertised as 2012....

But I'm also interested to try them.
I usually try to buy only recent harvest hops, but didn't have the info in this case. I'll be sticking to my usual suppliers in future.

I've got 200g and am tempted to use them all up in the brew late/post boil to try to get some flavour from them (with a few gs of something fresher for bittering) and hope they don't impart any stale flavours.

 

[dan125]

All that aside anyone who is selling 2012 hops still even if they are in pellet form should be doing so at a very heavy discount if at all

Agreed - I felt quite cheated considering they were some of the most expensive hops I've ever bought.

But like I said above - I'll be voting with feet (or should I say mouse) and only buy from suppliers who state the harvest year

 

[HisDudeness]

Just had a quick look in Beersmith and that variety is not listed but guessing at an average HSI of 25% and starting AA of 13% you would still be looking at dropping to at least 9% after 36 months assuming ideal storage conditions but there is a lot of guesswork and assumption there! Quite a big range if you are trying to calculate IBUs accurately, if you are going to use them then sticking to late additions is probably a good idea but obviously the flavour/aromatic oils will also have degraded significantly.

The link in this thread is quite informative on this issue and well worth a read.

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59524

 

[clibit]

I don't use older hops for bittering cos IBUs become guesswork.

Pellets keep better than leaf hops. If they are unopened and vacuum packed and have been kept cool their condition should be OK.

 

[ManseMasher]

How long ago did you buy them? Recently? If so, how about getting in touch with the supplier, tell them they are taking the p**s, ask for a refund/replacement, and then go by your nose. Open the packet - if they smell ok, use them, if they don't, well, don't! You will know as soon as you open the packet and take a whiff whether or not you want to stick them in your beer I would have thought....

 

[dan125]

How long ago did you buy them? ....

Only a few weeks ago - should have complained at the time.

I was thinking along the sniff 'em & see lines myself. If I plan to do this brew first & they turn out to be rubbish when opened, I'll still have the 2015 cascade to hand that I was gonna use in the other similar brew.

 

[MickDundee]

Along the same lines, I bought a load of AG equipment on Gumtree yesterday and there are some unopened Northern Brewer hops and the packaging says they are 2013 harvest and use by 31 January 2016. I take it I should take my wife's advice and bin them rather than make an "out of date" SMaSH with the grain I got too (unopened but about a year old).

 

[Tony1951]

Only a few weeks ago - should have complained at the time.

I was thinking along the sniff 'em & see lines myself. If I plan to do this brew first & they turn out to be rubbish when opened, I'll still have the 2015 cascade to hand that I was gonna use in the other similar brew.

It would be good to know who the supplier was so they can be avoided. 2012 is four harvests ago!

 

[dan125]

It would be good to know who the supplier was so they can be avoided. 2012 is four harvests ago!

 

[MickDundee]

Does that label say Brewstore? As in the Edinburgh place? I thought they had a pretty good reputation too!

 

[shuggie159]

The results of actually trying to use old hops...... Interesting experimental results....

http://brulosophy.com/2015/09/28/the-impact-of-age-hops-exbeeriment-results/

 

[dan125]

Am going to use these TnT hops today.
Taking into account advice to use them late and inspired a bit by some of the brewdog recipes, what do you reckon to this:-

23l batch
4.5kg maris otter
200g caramalt

15g sorachi ace - 60mins
50g TnT - 5mins
50g TnT - Steep @ 80 deg C
100g TnT - dry hop

 

[dan125]

I'm sampling this beer for the 1st time tonight - at least a week earlier than I'd have liked ideally - but the missus & kids are at the other end of the country for the week, visiting the outlaws and there's no other beer in the house! - what else am I gonna do??? :drink::whistle:

It's had 2 weeks in FV, 1 week in carboy with dry hops and 3 days in the kegerator carbonating. - still a bit hazy


Initial impressions are underwhelming especially considering the 200g (�£14 worth) of hops it had late/post boil. There is a mild fruity white wine sort of aroma, a bit like a very tame Nelson Sauvin, and the flavour is a bit 'green fruit' as per the website description of the hop. There is still a little harshness to the bitterness which I hope will mellow out after another week or so - if it lasts that long.

 

[MyQul]

I've only just read this thread. I guess you wont be buying them again?

Using older hops was discussed before in a thread. I think, the problem you would have had trying to work out how much AA% is left in the TnT hops, is that it's a blend. Different hops deminish a different rates and even if you knew which hops were in the blend it would have been a nightmare trying to work out the overall IBU's