All in one - vs - 3v?

[chopps]

I really like my 30L all in one, just wish it would do 50L. And I seem to have managed 80% efficiency today, admittedy for the first time. I’m slowly gathering the bits to make a bigger DIY all in one with my own controller now I know how this one works. I don’t think 3V would offer me any advantages personally. More space needed, more cleaning, more cost. As Clint said above, what suits you. 3V wouldn’t suit me.

 

[ChilledGecko]

Get it right first time, don't waste money by getting it wrong!
Think of all the brew money that could have been wasted.....

 

[Hudson1984]

Oh in fairness I’m pretty much asking you to tell me what I prefer - which is impossible but it’s interesting to see how many people prefer 3v over an all in one.

ventilation isn’t a huge issue I mean worst case scenario I can open the garage door but I guess I should factor in extraction of some kind over the brewing area

I’m undecided but I’ve been in touch with my local brew club and hopefully looking like I may be able to do a brew day on other peoples setups which would be great, I can see what’s best for me.

 

[marshbrewer]

I’m undecided but I’ve been in touch with my local brew club and hopefully looking like I may be able to do a brew day on other peoples setups which would be great, I can see what’s best for me.

That's probably the best thing you can do.

 

[Hudson1984]

Get it right first time, don't waste money by getting it wrong!
Think of all the brew money that could have been wasted.....

Absolutely my aim...just a difficult decision

 

[Scrattajack]

I'm using an all-in-one system, not top of the range but perfectly usable but am seriously thinking of ditching it in favour of a three-vessel setup. That way, I could move to propane and not be at the mercy of the weather quite so much.

 

[trueblue]

I used 3V for around 40 years making a lot of the bits myself over the years and was quite anti the 1 pot system. A few years back at one of the old brewing festivals they have a Grainfather V Braumeister brew off that did intrigued me. The fact I am in my mid sixty's and my boiler was on it's last legs I had a choice to make last year. After joining an old brewing friend for a brew day on his Grainfather for a brew day I took the plunge and bought a Grainfather. Never regretted it as it has made my brew days so much easier. Silly things like the malt pipe is so much easier to clean compared with the old coolbox mash tun, I cool the wort from boiling to pitching in 15 mins and my efficiency has gone from an average of 70% to 80%. If I was a younger man I might well go for 3V, as an old fart the grainfather all day long.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

For years I brewed on a home-built mash tun, various Burco and plastic boilers and plastic fermenting bins and made great beer for years. I wouldn't say I enjoyed building my mash tun, but I got a sense of satisfaction when finished.

A year or so ago I bought a Grainfather as I had some cash to splash. It took me quite a while to get used to it and I've had to make a checklist to make sure everything gets done in the right order. All-in-ones aren't, in my opinion space saving as I also have a sparge water heater and I've kept my old plastic boiler for boiling my water the day before I brew as I live in a hard water area.

The only space saving is a conical fermenter, although to be honest, once the jacket's on, the footprint isn't much off a plastic one.

My thoughts on one versus the other are:

If you've got the money to spend on a Grainfather do it, but also make sure you've got the money to spend on fermentation control, otherwise it's a bit of a waste.

If you've got some money you want to spend on equipment, but not enough for both of the above, go for control of temperature fermentation first. This will allow you to successfully brew a wider range of beers at any time of year.

 

[foxbat]

if you emptied your current setup - what would you replace it with?

Without a doubt the new Brewtools B40. It looks to have solved all the silly design niggles that the others have. No concealed element - in fact the best element I've ever seen in an AIO system with PID control. Sensors exactly where they should be. 40 litre capacity but will brew down to 20 litres. Triclamp fittings for easy cleaning. It's a high price but not when you look at it next to the Braumeister.

 

[Hudson1984]

I do like the idea of 3V, but I'd definitely want to go all electric.

with my very basic understanding of the process, I'd be looking to emulate this:
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/3-vessel-15-gal-electric-brewery
but I think there's savings to be made i.e. make my own panels and probably not use SS brewtech stuff.

The panel I could sub out to a company I used to work for (that make things for the food industry - including panels) or if there's someone in the local brew club who could help, will probably get them to do it once i'm all setup or whatever.

Wouldn't be as quick to setup as it's more expensive and will take more planning (and a decent extractor) but it looks to give me what i'm looking for throughout, plus now i've got the nod to use the larder fridge in the garage, i've got space for a decent conical

I get what you're all saying ref the all in one, but after that advice I can't see that it would be right for me given it'll end up being a 3V system anyway - so may as well go 3V from the off, then at least if I want to upgrade bits I can rather than having to get a complete new all in one system.

 

[ChilledGecko]

I made my own control panel

• saves cash
• fun to do
• exactly how I want it

but it takes time to design and build
Pictures below.
Thread here

 

[Hudson1984]

Yea that's massively impressive!!

out of interest, how much did it cost you to make....be careful you might find yourself invited to the depths of suffolk for a brew day and a panel commission

 

[ChilledGecko]

Thanks, it does the job.

Costs;
To be honest I'm not sure.
It's all eBay / Amazon sourced.
If I did it again I'd either change the 7" touchscreen to 10" or get rid.
At 7" the touchscreen is a bit hit 'n miss with my fat fingers.
Everything is accessible via web so I tend to use my phone.

Case was sub £20
SSRs around £5 each from Amazon (Chinese knock offs, so I've well oversized them)
Pi was sitting around but say £40
Cable was sitting around - you get the idea.
Switches & PSU were from AliExpress say £40

Still not cheap when you add it up.
Lots of planning, case cutting and wiring eats into your time.

Something you will also need to consider is your incoming feed.
I went 3.5Kw for my heaters, so a 7Kw heat load plus pumps, controller et al.
You will need to either size accordingly or have a set up to ensure both heaters are not on at the same time.

I _think_ the All in One systems are designed to run from a standard plug socket.

A different dimension to think about

Have fun pondering :hat:

 

[chopps]

Looks great @ChilledGecko I especially like the post it note section inside the door.
Watch those SSRs though. You really do get what you pay for.

 

[ChilledGecko]

@chopps fully understood!
I have a temp sensor installed just above them to keep an eye on things.
They were a returned favour for some coding work I did, I was to soft to ask for the more expensive branded ones. But I've tripled the switching capacity on the theory the may last a while...
I've also wired to allow manual override if they pop at the wrong time

 

[chopps]

Are they heat sinked, can't quite see from the photo?

 

[ChilledGecko]

Are they heat sinked, can't quite see from the photo?

Sure are, they are sitting on a DIN rail with a reasonably sized separate heat sinks.
I've had it running with all heaters and pumps fired up and the closed case went up by just a couple of degrees over half an hour or so.
So I don't expect too much misbehaviour.

 

[Hudson1984]

Thanks, it does the job.

Costs;
To be honest I'm not sure.
It's all eBay / Amazon sourced.
If I did it again I'd either change the 7" touchscreen to 10" or get rid.
At 7" the touchscreen is a bit hit 'n miss with my fat fingers.
Everything is accessible via web so I tend to use my phone.

Case was sub £20
SSRs around £5 each from Amazon (Chinese knock offs, so I've well oversized them)
Pi was sitting around but say £40
Cable was sitting around - you get the idea.
Switches & PSU were from AliExpress say £40

Still not cheap when you add it up.
Lots of planning, case cutting and wiring eats into your time.

Something you will also need to consider is your incoming feed.
I went 3.5Kw for my heaters, so a 7Kw heat load plus pumps, controller et al.
You will need to either size accordingly or have a set up to ensure both heaters are not on at the same time.

I _think_ the All in One systems are designed to run from a standard plug socket.

A different dimension to think about

Have fun pondering :hat:

hmm yes that's a large load through the garage. Would need to put in a new line for that from the consumer. I'd struggle with current electrics then to add this on too. But a new line isn't the end of the world, just another job.

 

[ChilledGecko]

hmm yes that's a large load through the garage. Would need to put in a new line for that from the consumer. I'd struggle with current electrics then to add this on too. But a new line isn't the end of the world, just another job.

I may have over egged the heating requirements, but I'm in a single skinned unheated shed. I will be insulating it in time but I planned for what I have now.
Mr Google was not that forthcoming with heater sizing wisdom so I planned using the best guess method.
The system will 'pulse' the heaters when they get to temperature so I shouldn't overheat.
Plus the shed used to house a hot tub, so the supply was already in place, so sizing was not a big worry. Plus heater costs seem the be roughly the same independent of heating capacity.

 

[Hudson1984]

ah ok, hopefully get away with something smaller, 7kW does seem HUGE.

2kW i'd be fine, but anything higher would be pushing it - but the the garage is fully insulated etc so ambient will be consistent as i'm installing AC in the new year so will be keeping the room at normal temps