All Grain v Extract what would I gain?

[Geoffinthewilds]

@Geoffinthewilds
If you mean brewing beers as in using malt extract with a hop boil (rather than making up a kit with or without 'improvements')
Extract ......
Main Pros
- Most AG recipes are directly convertible to extract except those where part of the grain bill requires mashing like oats or torrified wheat. You can still steep some grains like crystal, chocolate or black malts
- Its quicker than AG and there is less kit involved. All you need is a large enough stock pot for the hop boil in addition to the basics. You dont have to boil all of the ME, some of it can go straight into the FV as for kit. So you can brew beer with a stock pot of half to third of the final volume.
- If you are into large quantities malt extract is easier to store and under the right conditions will probably keep longer (esp DME)

Main Cons
- Cheap or old LME may bring a twang to your beer. (But you shouldn't get that with premium LME specifically sold for brewing)
- Malt extract is more expensive than grain
- There is less choice for selecting a base to make up a recipe (compared to AG) ie you are restricted to 5 colour types.

And all malt extracts will dissolve, even DME, you just have to be a bit patient and work on it to allow any clumps to break down an then disssolve. I never get a problem with this.

Thanks Terry m food for thought I did mean the can kits like Coopers Wilkos etc but will study more the methods you mention, nothing is off the table will consider all options, thanks for your informative reply
Cheers
Geoff

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

I moved over to all grain about a year ago. I don’t have lots of expensive kit. Pros my beer is much more predictable and lighter and cheaper and better cons it takes longer. You literally pay your money and take your choice.

Mmmm not keen on the taking longer bit

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

No matter how bad my AG trials if I go that way, go, it can never be as bad as when I was in Libya and had to brew apple juice with bakers yeast, used to call it cloud 9, did the job though

Actually, bakers yeast is fine, just a bit limiting in terms of it’s contribution to the overall flavour, aroma, mouthfeel.., d’you know what, use it as a last resort!

 

[dwhite60]

All grain does take longer because you have to mash the grain. However, if you do brew-in-a-bag you bypass the lautering process which used to take me at least an hour.

Doing BIAB I'm fours hours from starting to heat water in the pot to the last thing cleaned and put away. This is at a pretty leisurely pace too.

Lately I've been making beer with an ABV of 4% to 5% and trying to get FG down to 1.006 or so. I'm mashing at 64C with a lot of adjunct too so I let it go 90 minutes. Something more full bodied mashed at 69C or so I could probably do 45 minutes and have full conversion.

That 90 minute mash is actually free time too so I can do other things while the mash is in the oven.

 

[terrym]

Thanks Terry m food for thought I did mean the can kits like Coopers Wilkos etc but will study more the methods you mention, nothing is off the table will consider all options, thanks for your informative reply
Cheers
Geoff

More here on extract brewing
A Simple Guide to Extract Brewing
And there's always this
Simple kit plus mini-mash method to improve a kit - The HomeBrew Forum
Your choices in homebrewing are really quite varied
From basic kits (kit and a kilo type) the progression is
- kits with improvements (alias pimping, including the minimash)
- extract brewing
- partial mash (mixture of AG and extract brewing)
- all AG which goes from 5 litre stove top BIAB in the kitchen moving through several options to semi auto processes involving shiny like the Grainfather

But imo in the end all homebrewing is governed by a few basics which include budget, space available, time available, your aspirations and often how picky (obsessive?) you want to be

 

[cockerhoop]

I did my first grain brew with 1 steel 32 pint pot, thermos coolbox home made mash tun, copper cooling coil and a fermenting bucket.
I've now got the afore mentioned garage full of expensive shiny equipment. I don't understand the science behind it, but all grain tastes like beer you would buy and extract tastes like home-brew (IMHO).
Ebay is full of great gear at cheap prices, I would look on there.
One thing you won't gain is time. Takes me the best part of the day from start to everything cleaned up.

 

[Hoppyland]

No matter how bad my AG trials if I go that way, go, it can never be as bad as when I was in Libya and had to brew apple juice with bakers yeast, used to call it cloud 9, did the job though

Sounds better than my cider attempt in Saudi Arabia in the 70s. Apple juice in flip-top bottles, bakers yeast, no hydrometer. I thought it had fermented out (hell, it was hot enough!) but my first attempt to open a bottle almost snapped my thumb off, and the "cider" hit the ceiling. I covered the rest with a heavy duvet & just let them explode.

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

More here on extract brewing
A Simple Guide to Extract Brewing
And there's always this
Simple kit plus mini-mash method to improve a kit - The HomeBrew Forum
Your choices in homebrewing are really quite varied
From basic kits (kit and a kilo type) the progression is
- kits with improvements (alias pimping, including the minimash)
- extract brewing
- partial mash (mixture of AG and extract brewing)
- all AG which goes from 5 litre stove top BIAB in the kitchen moving through several options to semi auto processes involving shiny like the Grainfather

But imo in the end all homebrewing is governed by a few basics which include budget, space available, time available, your aspirations and often how picky (obsessive?) you want to be

Up early to let the beasties out so looks like thats my mornings reading up sorted so thanks for that

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

Sounds better than my cider attempt in Saudi Arabia in the 70s. Apple juice in flip-top bottles, bakers yeast, no hydrometer. I thought it had fermented out (hell, it was hot enough!) but my first attempt to open a bottle almost snapped my thumb off, and the "cider" hit the ceiling. I covered the rest with a heavy duvet & just let them explode.

Sounds like the same bottles we got in Libya, think it was called Rausch or somthing like, defo had the flip top bottle, I used to put a pinch of the bakers yeast in, leave the top loose, then after a week seal the top and leave it to carb, it never was around long enough to condition but one slipped down the back of the cupboard and I found it after 6 months and it was clear and just like drinking Prosecco.
I soon found a homebrew shop in Stockport that started stocking the dry kits, so between us he would email me the instructions, replace the instructions in the kit with some cake recipe and I got loads of them into the country no hassle, I had at least 3 massive bins on the go every week, much better than that minging Flash

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

All grain does take longer because you have to mash the grain. However, if you do brew-in-a-bag you bypass the lautering process which used to take me at least an hour.

Doing BIAB I'm fours hours from starting to heat water in the pot to the last thing cleaned and put away. This is at a pretty leisurely pace too.

Lately I've been making beer with an ABV of 4% to 5% and trying to get FG down to 1.006 or so. I'm mashing at 64C with a lot of adjunct too so I let it go 90 minutes. Something more full bodied mashed at 69C or so I could probably do 45 minutes and have full conversion.

That 90 minute mash is actually free time too so I can do other things while the mash is in the oven.

I dont mind how long it takes, would probably spend far to long weighing out , if it says 300 g 299 or 301 aint good enough lol, but would enjoy the experience

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

I did my first grain brew with 1 steel 32 pint pot, thermos coolbox home made mash tun, copper cooling coil and a fermenting bucket.
I've now got the afore mentioned garage full of expensive shiny equipment. I don't understand the science behind it, but all grain tastes like beer you would buy and extract tastes like home-brew (IMHO).
Ebay is full of great gear at cheap prices, I would look on there.
One thing you won't gain is time. Takes me the best part of the day from start to everything cleaned up.

I'm a salesmans dream come true, like a magpie love shiny new things , but I could make it a lot cheaper as got the LPG burner and will look on Gumtree and Ebay, I know we have a great for sale section on this brilliant site but it amazes me how quick things sell on here, but we all know what a brilliant site this is with lots of help and advice and no snobbish or arsy behaviour really enjoying it and will contribute once back on full wage after this mad lockdown

 

[jeg3]

Pretty much what every one else has said, but I'll add my two penneth:

My AG kit is basic, plastic boiler, cool box mash tun, home made sparge arm. It takes about 5 hours from start to finish. I buy uncrushed grain and mill it. I've also got a fermenting fridge, which gives me the flexibility to brew wheat beers, saisons, lagers and anything else really.

Also perform basic water treatment

Wouldn't go back to extract or kits. Got my 43rd AG brew on yesterday.

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

Pretty much what every one else has said, but I'll add my two penneth:

My AG kit is basic, plastic boiler, cool box mash tun, home made sparge arm. It takes about 5 hours from start to finish. I buy uncrushed grain and mill it. I've also got a fermenting fridge, which gives me the flexibility to brew wheat beers, saisons, lagers and anything else really.

Also perform basic water treatment

Wouldn't go back to extract or kits. Got my 43rd AG brew on yesterday.

Thanks Jeg3, trying to find the space for a fermentation fridge, but getting good results with a builders rubble tub and a water bath with aquarium heater for now, whats really spurring me on is everyone so far that has gone AG says they would not go back to Kits, so must be worth all the efforts, so back to the re search for me

 

[terrym]

Thanks Jeg3, trying to find the space for a fermentation fridge, but getting good results with a builders rubble tub and a water bath with aquarium heater for now, whats really spurring me on is everyone so far that has gone AG says they would not go back to Kits, so must be worth all the efforts, so back to the re search for me

Most folks start with kits, and then many move on. I always suggest you start with kits then decide what you want to do, since you can then make an informed decision. The basic equipment is the same whatever you do. For some AG becomes an obsession, for others kits are quite adequate especially since there are now good kits out there some of which can on occasion produce beer to rival commercial beer. Time to spend, budget, space and aspirations will dictate it for most.

 

[Bevvied]

I'd encourage anyone to start BIAB.
I do everything from Kits to full on AG in the Grainfather, but BIAB is my favourite.
Why?
I like making small 10L brews. I like experimenting with hops and I like to sometimes invent a brew without even thinking of using a recipe builder. It's very easy to do this using the BIAB method. It was also a great way for me to find out which particular hops I like, a 10L SMASH is as easy as it gets and after it there's lots of quaffable beer to sup and share.

I'm also not in any way a AG snob, from my experience there are many kits which give great results.

 

[Sandimas]

Pros my beer is much more predictable and lighter and cheaper and better cons it takes longer.

And that is the trade-off: time. Not just a bit more time, a lot of time. I usually start an AG brew at 7am on my day-off and am finished by 11am, sometimes 12.

Yes, you can do other things in between but you need to keep an eye on the clock and the pan when it's boiling. First law of AG brewing: if you watch the pan it'll never boil, as soon as you leave the room it'll boil over.

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

Thanks for all the wonderful replies, I was just going to buy a Brewzilla but looking at a lot of youtube vids a lot seem to knock up their own kit so is it Ebay you can get the insulated mash tun as not seen those for sale, would have to get a Hot Liquor Tank and make a wort cooler so guess screwfix for the plumbing bits, any pointers would be great of any home constructed set ups

 

[Gerryjo]

Thanks for all the wonderful replies, I was just going to buy a Brewzilla but looking at a lot of youtube vids a lot seem to knock up their own kit so is it Ebay you can get the insulated mash tun as not seen those for sale, would have to get a Hot Liquor Tank and make a wort cooler so guess screwfix for the plumbing bits, any pointers would be great of any home constructed set ups

I may as well chime as I first brewed in late 80s early 90s then with a hiatus of 25 years got inspired by a work colleague who was doing kits. Back then kits were totally different to what they are now so I done a bit of research and start back with an AG stove top kit which was supposed to be 5l but ended up with 23l as I added LME and sugar and turned out drinkable and far better than kits I remembered.
Have done a few kit brews but have stuck to AG.
My biggest outlay was a set of SS pots on ebay for £35 but decided very early to buy bulk grain crushed saving money on quantity and postage.
Used my fermenter to mash at the start before converting a 52l cool box which I still use 3 1/2 years later but there have been equipment additions as I now have more than I need and have just recently pre ordered a Robobrew.
AG is fantastic and can be time consuming with sorting recipes, cleaning, prepping etc but is totally worth it especially when you have neighbours and friends who will happily chug your beer and actually enjoy it better than some commercial brands.
AG can be done on a shoestring budget or you can spend a fortune but over time you can add on if you want to and end up with the same results but that's the obsession we choose to follow.
Good luck going forward regardless how you do it and don't be afraid to worry or make mistakes as it's all positive as we learn from them as we go along...

 

[Geoffinthewilds]

I may as well chime as I first brewed in late 80s early 90s then with a hiatus of 25 years got inspired by a work colleague who was doing kits. Back then kits were totally different to what they are now so I done a bit of research and start back with an AG stove top kit which was supposed to be 5l but ended up with 23l as I added LME and sugar and turned out drinkable and far better than kits I remembered.
Have done a few kit brews but have stuck to AG.
My biggest outlay was a set of SS pots on ebay for £35 but decided very early to buy bulk grain crushed saving money on quantity and postage.
Used my fermenter to mash at the start before converting a 52l cool box which I still use 3 1/2 years later but there have been equipment additions as I now have more than I need and have just recently pre ordered a Robobrew.
AG is fantastic and can be time consuming with sorting recipes, cleaning, prepping etc but is totally worth it especially when you have neighbours and friends who will happily chug your beer and actually enjoy it better than some commercial brands.
AG can be done on a shoestring budget or you can spend a fortune but over time you can add on if you want to and end up with the same results but that's the obsession we choose to follow.
Good luck going forward regardless how you do it and don't be afraid to worry or make mistakes as it's all positive as we learn from them as we go along...

Thanks Gerry,
I have returned to the fold after a break, was never happy with the kits but was doing the lager kits and putting it in my pressure barrel, I now know lager should not be put in a PB but bottles, I then did the bottles and got far better results but hated the hassle of bottling so just got my first two brews in my Kegerator and really happy with the outcome, so having far to much time to keep reading this great forum it keeps giving me ideas, not a bad thing, I suppose the next step from kits would be the BIAB, but the Robobrew has really caught my eye and would be the way to go,not put my pre order in as yet and see Angel Homebrew and BrewKegTap have various deals so will re search that more but looks a good system, be interested to hear what you think when yours turns up.
Cheers
Geoff

 

[Gerryjo]

Hi Geoff, tbh I don't really need it as I can brew beer in many different ways as I have discovered. Only got it as the missus had booked a week in Spain at the motogp for my 50th birthday but has been cancelled so I will suffer this instead..