Gettttttttttt innn!
All I can say if a disabled one handed bloke with learning problem then you can make thing come true....lol
Nice one chuffed for ya.
Now GF here ya come.
All Grain Brewing System reviews.
- Thread starter drakey182
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Gettttttttttt innn!
All I can say if a disabled one handed bloke with learning problem then you can make thing come true....lol
Nice one chuffed for ya.
Now GF here ya come.
appositive
Active Member
Ace micro brewer
Hi All,
I ordered one of the micro brewery units mid-january (it's a Klarstein branded one, but identical to the ace unit). When I was considering the purchase, this thread was one of the few sources of information I could find online (along with the youtube videos posted by people on this thread, and the 'IPA' brewday thread on another forum). I just finished my second brew with the unit and thought I'd scribble down my general impression and a few specifics.
Full disclosure: I'm new to brewing... before recent brews on the Klarstein have made about 6 extract or partial mash batches.
General impression when I received the brewer was pretty good... it's a little on the flimsy side of things (not a braumeister), but that was expected at the price point. And has it's advantages... the kettle is pretty easy to manhandle. One minor complaint: the recirculation faucet didn't fit into the glass lid when the lid was closed. Had to bend it a little to make it fit, which is a little harder than you'd think. Not a big deal, but sort of a sign of low quality control. Again, no surprise; I bought it for less than half the price of the grainfather.
When I got the unit I did a mock run, just to make sure everything worked. Had no troubles. But first brew was a disaster. After mashing in, for some reason it kept blowing an internal breaker... the unit would switch off after some random amount of time before turning itself back on some 15 seconds later. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why. It made for a rough brew day... didn't want to waste the batch, so spent a few hours lying on the floor in order to reach the not-so-convenient control panel and reset temprature etc. after each reset. Didn't hit my target SG by a longshot (but topped up with LME, effectively brewed a partial mash batch that should be ok).
Ran another mock brew the next day, did everything as per real brew except mash in. Had no troubles. Did a real brew today, holding my breath the whole time. Went smooth as butter.
No clue what the trouble was, but I'm hoping it's gone. Perhaps something was blocking the pump, blowing the breaker? Or maybe power was particularly badly conditioned that day, caused the electronics some grief? (this is not unheard of in my area)
If anyone else has had this trouble, I'd love to hear about it.
That all said, the brew today - the 2nd brew - was wonderful. Prepped to 72 degrees, mashing in brought it to target of 68. Started with recirculation tap at about 50%. Noticed that temperature at top of mash was about 1.5 or 2 degrees below indicated value... opened the tap to about 80%, this reduced down to almost nothing. So thermometer seems good, reasonably well calibrated.
As mentioned earlier in the thread (maybe elsewhere) the thermostat seems to operate in 2 degree units. So if you set for 68, mash will sit at 67 the majority of the time (a little bit at target of 68, then a lot of time at 67 before temp drops to 66 and the element kicks in). I may consider setting target 1 degree higher than nominal value in next run.
Also, these temp units appear fixed... that is, 1 temp unit is from 66 to 68 degrees, another from 68 to 70... so if you set for 69, you'll probably stay pretty close to that temperature, say 68.5, as it cycles between 68 and 69. But if you set for 70, you'll spend most of the time at 69, as it cycles from 68 to 70. Hope this makes sense.
The recirculation pump is very 'clean'... there's no aeration of the wort, the recirculated fluid reenters the mash with very little splashing.
The grain pipe worried me at first... some gaps where the filter fits into the pipe. But in the end, I've found very little grain in the wort... seems to work pretty ok.
The 2500 watt heater is great. Makes for a quick start to brewday... mash temperature achieved quickly. And boils the **** out of the wort.
The manual is garbage, not even worth looking at.
In spite of nightmare first brew (I almost threw the whole thing off the balcony) after this second brew, I like the unit a lot. I hope the gremlins don't return... if they don't, I'll be very pleased with the purchase. Haven't calculated my efficiency on the brew today, but I painlessly hit my target.
One last thing: on their website Klarstein included a wort chiller in the list of parts, but no wort chiller was provided. I don't think this thing ever shipped from China with a chiller... someone made a mistake. I've asked for a partial refund, just to see what happens. I already had a chiller, so wasn't a problem... but perhaps they'll refund me a few euro that I can put toward grain. :)
Thanks to all who have posted earlier in the thread, and particularly those who put up youtube videos... helped a lot both in deciding to buy and in setting up for first run.
Hi All,
I ordered one of the micro brewery units mid-january (it's a Klarstein branded one, but identical to the ace unit). When I was considering the purchase, this thread was one of the few sources of information I could find online (along with the youtube videos posted by people on this thread, and the 'IPA' brewday thread on another forum). I just finished my second brew with the unit and thought I'd scribble down my general impression and a few specifics.
Full disclosure: I'm new to brewing... before recent brews on the Klarstein have made about 6 extract or partial mash batches.
General impression when I received the brewer was pretty good... it's a little on the flimsy side of things (not a braumeister), but that was expected at the price point. And has it's advantages... the kettle is pretty easy to manhandle. One minor complaint: the recirculation faucet didn't fit into the glass lid when the lid was closed. Had to bend it a little to make it fit, which is a little harder than you'd think. Not a big deal, but sort of a sign of low quality control. Again, no surprise; I bought it for less than half the price of the grainfather.
When I got the unit I did a mock run, just to make sure everything worked. Had no troubles. But first brew was a disaster. After mashing in, for some reason it kept blowing an internal breaker... the unit would switch off after some random amount of time before turning itself back on some 15 seconds later. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why. It made for a rough brew day... didn't want to waste the batch, so spent a few hours lying on the floor in order to reach the not-so-convenient control panel and reset temprature etc. after each reset. Didn't hit my target SG by a longshot (but topped up with LME, effectively brewed a partial mash batch that should be ok).
Ran another mock brew the next day, did everything as per real brew except mash in. Had no troubles. Did a real brew today, holding my breath the whole time. Went smooth as butter.
No clue what the trouble was, but I'm hoping it's gone. Perhaps something was blocking the pump, blowing the breaker? Or maybe power was particularly badly conditioned that day, caused the electronics some grief? (this is not unheard of in my area)
If anyone else has had this trouble, I'd love to hear about it.
That all said, the brew today - the 2nd brew - was wonderful. Prepped to 72 degrees, mashing in brought it to target of 68. Started with recirculation tap at about 50%. Noticed that temperature at top of mash was about 1.5 or 2 degrees below indicated value... opened the tap to about 80%, this reduced down to almost nothing. So thermometer seems good, reasonably well calibrated.
As mentioned earlier in the thread (maybe elsewhere) the thermostat seems to operate in 2 degree units. So if you set for 68, mash will sit at 67 the majority of the time (a little bit at target of 68, then a lot of time at 67 before temp drops to 66 and the element kicks in). I may consider setting target 1 degree higher than nominal value in next run.
Also, these temp units appear fixed... that is, 1 temp unit is from 66 to 68 degrees, another from 68 to 70... so if you set for 69, you'll probably stay pretty close to that temperature, say 68.5, as it cycles between 68 and 69. But if you set for 70, you'll spend most of the time at 69, as it cycles from 68 to 70. Hope this makes sense.
The recirculation pump is very 'clean'... there's no aeration of the wort, the recirculated fluid reenters the mash with very little splashing.
The grain pipe worried me at first... some gaps where the filter fits into the pipe. But in the end, I've found very little grain in the wort... seems to work pretty ok.
The 2500 watt heater is great. Makes for a quick start to brewday... mash temperature achieved quickly. And boils the **** out of the wort.
The manual is garbage, not even worth looking at.
In spite of nightmare first brew (I almost threw the whole thing off the balcony) after this second brew, I like the unit a lot. I hope the gremlins don't return... if they don't, I'll be very pleased with the purchase. Haven't calculated my efficiency on the brew today, but I painlessly hit my target.
One last thing: on their website Klarstein included a wort chiller in the list of parts, but no wort chiller was provided. I don't think this thing ever shipped from China with a chiller... someone made a mistake. I've asked for a partial refund, just to see what happens. I already had a chiller, so wasn't a problem... but perhaps they'll refund me a few euro that I can put toward grain. :)
Thanks to all who have posted earlier in the thread, and particularly those who put up youtube videos... helped a lot both in deciding to buy and in setting up for first run.
The reviews here starts with Grainfather vs Braumeister then brewster (post 30) + brewcrafter (post 85) + bulldog brewer (post 125) + Ace micro brewer (post142).
Hi,
I have a Bulldog Brewer and I've been trying to set up an accurate equipment profile in beersmith over the last few brews based on one I found online. I have been finding that my efficiency is ranging between 70 and 80% dependent on the recipe.
I watched a YouTube video of a new brew system from Sweden which looks to be almost identical to the Bulldog Brewer. It's called the Coobra CB25. I've discovered that the company selling these units provides downloads for Beersmith equipment and Mash profiles for it with different profiles for both the 1800w and 2500w settings.
The link is https://www.olkompaniet.se/coobra-cb25
This may help anyone that is trying to set up their own profile.
If anyone has had any luck setting up an accurate profile for the bulldog I'd be interested to know what settings you have used.
Thanks
I have a Bulldog Brewer and I've been trying to set up an accurate equipment profile in beersmith over the last few brews based on one I found online. I have been finding that my efficiency is ranging between 70 and 80% dependent on the recipe.
I watched a YouTube video of a new brew system from Sweden which looks to be almost identical to the Bulldog Brewer. It's called the Coobra CB25. I've discovered that the company selling these units provides downloads for Beersmith equipment and Mash profiles for it with different profiles for both the 1800w and 2500w settings.
The link is https://www.olkompaniet.se/coobra-cb25
This may help anyone that is trying to set up their own profile.
If anyone has had any luck setting up an accurate profile for the bulldog I'd be interested to know what settings you have used.
Thanks
Oneflewover
Landlord.
I've read the whole thread and it seems clear that the Grainfather is the best compromise between price and quality, but I simply don't have the funds for it. The ace looks ok, but put off by buying off fleabay. Can anyone convince me that the bulldog brewer is a good option? :-?
Have you read this - http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68882
With that amount of sales to feedback i wouldn't be worried.
Superfast shipping and contact whit seller!!!! Wont find better seller!!!! Buyer: l***_ ( 41Yellow star icon for feedback score in between 10 to 49)
ACE Micro Brewery Mashing 4 Home Craft Beer with pump, Mashing, 6 stage program (#271687277467)
Great service. thanks Buyer: j***c ( 428Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499)
ACE Micro Brewery Mashing 4 Home Craft Beer with pump PRE-ORDER DUE 14th FEB (#271687277467)
Very good company to deal with Buyer: e***s ( 84Blue star icon for feedback score in between 50 to 99)
ACE Micro Brewery Mashing 4 Home Craft Beer Mash with pump and 16m coiler coil (#222405120744)
.
Oneflewover
Landlord.
Yeah, thanks I did read that. Doesn't look like it comes with a chiller? I've had some less than ideal experiences with fleabay so am wary now. Does look tempting at that price though.....
He was selling them with a chiller for ã40 more when I bought mine
Oneflewover
Landlord.
Hmmmmm, so if you take into account that the bulldog brewer comes with a chiller and a sparge plate (which the ace doesn't) it becomes less about price and more about which is the better quality / functionality :-?.
The Ace has a top plate for the grain basket - is that the same as the sparge plate on the Bulldog?
There are also differences in the pipework for recirculating the wort during the mash. The Ace seems to be more like the Grainfather in that respect.
There are also differences in the pipework for recirculating the wort during the mash. The Ace seems to be more like the Grainfather in that respect.
Linalmeemow
Landlord.
I did the earlier review for the Bulldog Brewer on here. I'm still totally satisfied with it, and after having done probably 8 or so brewdays with it I'm now producing beer that is far better than I thought I'd ever make at home. The recirculating pipework is much simpler on the Bulldog - an external removabe pump and silicon tubing that you attach as needed then remove to clean and store, rather than what appears to be SS piping on the GF. I like this approach as both the silicon tubing and pump can be replaced easily if there are any problems.
If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask (I should point out I'm not affiliated with the makers of the Bulldog in any way - I'm just well pleased with it).
If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask (I should point out I'm not affiliated with the makers of the Bulldog in any way - I'm just well pleased with it).
Oneflewover
Landlord.
Thanks that is exactly the sort of endorsement I was looking for :thumb:
Interestingly I have been emailing one of the larger online hb outlets who reckon that they have had less problems with the bulldog than the Grainfather. Decision made...... I think :whistle:
Linalmeemow
Landlord.
Just make sure you get the updated version with the improved grain basket handle and longer grain basket tube - I've had both the original and newer versions after the original handle failed, and the updates make a big difference.
Oneflewover
Landlord.
Thanks, very helpful. Can you post pics so I know what to look for? I thought the upgrades were with the perforated sparging plate, enhanced pump rating and extended timing on the digital display unit?
Linalmeemow
Landlord.
There's not a lot to show - ask the HBS owner and they'll likely know what the newer versions are. The perforated sparge plate has always come with it as far as I know, and I hadn't heard about a new pump or change to the controller. I just use the timer on my oven for my hop additions!
Hi
Can you tell me how long is your brew day using the Bulldog. I recently brewed 20l AG using a BIAB method 90 mins steeping and 90 mins boil and it took me 8hrs from beginning to clean up.
Linalmeemow
Landlord.
Usually 5-5 1/2 hours depending on the mash and boil times - that's from first putting hands on the kit to bring it from the garage to the kitchen to putting it back in the garage after cleaning. With there being lots of dead time during the boil you can do most of the cleaning as you go with only the boiler unit left to clean at the end. It's the biggest single part but also the easiest to clean.
Hi mate, can you tell me on average how many litres of wort do you have in your FV after the boil using the Bulldog?
Linalmeemow
Landlord.
Depends on the recipe! At first I was ending up well under target - in one case I only got 17l of the 20l I was aiming at - more recently I've been getting within a litre. I've had a full 23l in the FV post-boil but I doubt the capacity of the boiler is large enough to do any greater than that.
IainM
Landlord.
OK, so I wanted to get an all-in-one system so I could do step mashes, have a shorter brew day and have more time to myself when I brew. Grainfather was too expensive, and both the ACE and Klarstein were out of stock, so I got a Bulldog Brewer. It arrived yesterday, and I cleaned it out and did my first brew, a 20L version of Clibits Simcoe Mild recipe.
Firstly, my unit was defective, which gave me problems down the line. It comes with two elements, a 700W element for maintaining temperature, a 1800W element for a good rolling boil, and they can be combined for quickly raising the temp to bring the strike water to temp, between mash steps, and to start the boil. My 1800W element wasn't working, which I first suspected when it took 45 mins to get to strike temperature. The 700W wouldn't go above 84C without me insulating the unit like I would a BIAB mash, and even then it was more of 'barely a simmer' than a rolling boil. Subsequently, I missed the numbers and got 25L into the fv instead of 20L I had planned. Hopefully the hop utilisation hasn't suffered too much, and it won't be full of DMS. After brewing I tested it by trying to heat up some water just using the 1800W element, and nothing happened. Nevertheless, I do like it, and if I can get the unit fixed or replaced by Hambleton Bard, then I'll be more than happy to stick with it.
Preparation: Washing and rinsing the kit for first time use was easy, and everything was pretty self-explanatory to set up. Despite being slow, bringing the water to strike temperature was easy compared to my peco, where I would have to lean over the kettle, glasses steamed up, at the right time with a thermometer. The electronic interface is very simple and intuitive. I had set my grain mill to 1.2mm, to make sure that the crush wasn't too fine, so that the recirculation didn't draw in the grain bed, and to give me an easy time with the sparge. This has the other advantage that doughing in was easy, especially with the recirculation on, with no dough balls at all. The unit recommends a liquor to grist ratio of 3.0, so quite a thin mash which also helped. I had previously always sought a fine crush, for the sake of efficiency, without noticing these advantages of a coarse crush. Now that the recirculation makes efficiency not a problem, this system gets the best of both worlds.
Mash: The unit held 65C well over the 1 hour mash, and the recirculation worked perfectly despite 11.5% wheat in the grist. The pump didn't struggle at all, and the bazooka filter didn't clog. I've read that some earlier models had a weaker pump PSU and a shorter bazooka which caused problems, but the longer and finer mesh and the higher power supply meant the pump had no problem at all. Raising the temp to 72C for mash-out was very easy, just press a button and walk away. It took 10 mins to raise with the 700W element, but I imagine it would be a lot quicker if the 1800W was working. Overall, this stage was easier than with the peco; I did stir the mash halfway through, but I didn't have to unwrap a load of insulation to do it. During the mash I used the sparge plate to redistribute the wort as it came through the return pipe. I can imagine that otherwise the flow might compact the grain bed.
Sparge: Other than the recirculation, lautering is where an all-in-one system really comes into its own compared to BIAB. I just lifted the malt pipe, put it on its rests (there are two levels, so you can do this in two stages if you are weak or have a large grain bill). I then added the sparge plate and poured the water on. There was no channelling, and the plate ensured that the sparge was evenly distributed over the surface of the grain bed without disturbing it. A small gripe, however, was that with a small grain bill like this one, the sparge plate can't quite be lowered enough to bring it just above the grain bed, though as far as I could tell this had no negative effect. The whole process was so much easier than BIAB. No dripping bags making a mess, and no fine-crushed grist needed to be squeezed to death. The coarse husks just allowed the sparge water to evenly, steadily and thoroughly rinse out the sugars in under 20 minutes. It was really straight forward and I could tell by tasting the spent grains that the sugar extraction was very effective. One nice thing about the Bulldog Brewer is that the pump is external, and not integrated into the unit. This means that I could have used it for continual delivery of the sparge water to the sparge plate, and this would negate the need to gravity feed, allowing the HLT and BB to be next to one another.
Boil: I can't really comment on the boil, because I didn't have one. :-(
Overall, I'm impressed by the bits that worked, and it seems that Hambleton Bard have managed to overcome the infancy niggles with the earlier models by improving the pump, sparge plate, bazooka and malt pipe mesh and handle. Almost all aspects of the brew day were easier, and I had a lot more time on my hands, and less mess to clean up at the end of the day. I'm annoyed that the 1800W element wasn't working, which mean I missed my target numbers, but I did hit 75% brewhouse efficiency which I guess isn't bad considering. Next time I will crush a little bit finer to see if that improves it without stressing the pump or compacting the grain, maybe a 1mm gap. I've contacted the vendor, who have contacted Hambleton Bard, so hopefully they can get me a fix, or repair/replace it in the next couple of weeks ready for the next brew day: a double-mashed RIS to pitch on the yeast cake of the Mild.
Firstly, my unit was defective, which gave me problems down the line. It comes with two elements, a 700W element for maintaining temperature, a 1800W element for a good rolling boil, and they can be combined for quickly raising the temp to bring the strike water to temp, between mash steps, and to start the boil. My 1800W element wasn't working, which I first suspected when it took 45 mins to get to strike temperature. The 700W wouldn't go above 84C without me insulating the unit like I would a BIAB mash, and even then it was more of 'barely a simmer' than a rolling boil. Subsequently, I missed the numbers and got 25L into the fv instead of 20L I had planned. Hopefully the hop utilisation hasn't suffered too much, and it won't be full of DMS. After brewing I tested it by trying to heat up some water just using the 1800W element, and nothing happened. Nevertheless, I do like it, and if I can get the unit fixed or replaced by Hambleton Bard, then I'll be more than happy to stick with it.
Preparation: Washing and rinsing the kit for first time use was easy, and everything was pretty self-explanatory to set up. Despite being slow, bringing the water to strike temperature was easy compared to my peco, where I would have to lean over the kettle, glasses steamed up, at the right time with a thermometer. The electronic interface is very simple and intuitive. I had set my grain mill to 1.2mm, to make sure that the crush wasn't too fine, so that the recirculation didn't draw in the grain bed, and to give me an easy time with the sparge. This has the other advantage that doughing in was easy, especially with the recirculation on, with no dough balls at all. The unit recommends a liquor to grist ratio of 3.0, so quite a thin mash which also helped. I had previously always sought a fine crush, for the sake of efficiency, without noticing these advantages of a coarse crush. Now that the recirculation makes efficiency not a problem, this system gets the best of both worlds.
Mash: The unit held 65C well over the 1 hour mash, and the recirculation worked perfectly despite 11.5% wheat in the grist. The pump didn't struggle at all, and the bazooka filter didn't clog. I've read that some earlier models had a weaker pump PSU and a shorter bazooka which caused problems, but the longer and finer mesh and the higher power supply meant the pump had no problem at all. Raising the temp to 72C for mash-out was very easy, just press a button and walk away. It took 10 mins to raise with the 700W element, but I imagine it would be a lot quicker if the 1800W was working. Overall, this stage was easier than with the peco; I did stir the mash halfway through, but I didn't have to unwrap a load of insulation to do it. During the mash I used the sparge plate to redistribute the wort as it came through the return pipe. I can imagine that otherwise the flow might compact the grain bed.
Sparge: Other than the recirculation, lautering is where an all-in-one system really comes into its own compared to BIAB. I just lifted the malt pipe, put it on its rests (there are two levels, so you can do this in two stages if you are weak or have a large grain bill). I then added the sparge plate and poured the water on. There was no channelling, and the plate ensured that the sparge was evenly distributed over the surface of the grain bed without disturbing it. A small gripe, however, was that with a small grain bill like this one, the sparge plate can't quite be lowered enough to bring it just above the grain bed, though as far as I could tell this had no negative effect. The whole process was so much easier than BIAB. No dripping bags making a mess, and no fine-crushed grist needed to be squeezed to death. The coarse husks just allowed the sparge water to evenly, steadily and thoroughly rinse out the sugars in under 20 minutes. It was really straight forward and I could tell by tasting the spent grains that the sugar extraction was very effective. One nice thing about the Bulldog Brewer is that the pump is external, and not integrated into the unit. This means that I could have used it for continual delivery of the sparge water to the sparge plate, and this would negate the need to gravity feed, allowing the HLT and BB to be next to one another.
Boil: I can't really comment on the boil, because I didn't have one. :-(
Overall, I'm impressed by the bits that worked, and it seems that Hambleton Bard have managed to overcome the infancy niggles with the earlier models by improving the pump, sparge plate, bazooka and malt pipe mesh and handle. Almost all aspects of the brew day were easier, and I had a lot more time on my hands, and less mess to clean up at the end of the day. I'm annoyed that the 1800W element wasn't working, which mean I missed my target numbers, but I did hit 75% brewhouse efficiency which I guess isn't bad considering. Next time I will crush a little bit finer to see if that improves it without stressing the pump or compacting the grain, maybe a 1mm gap. I've contacted the vendor, who have contacted Hambleton Bard, so hopefully they can get me a fix, or repair/replace it in the next couple of weeks ready for the next brew day: a double-mashed RIS to pitch on the yeast cake of the Mild.
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