Alemans Effin Erdinger Recipe
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Last Batch was terrible and I can't quite figure out why ? ?
Problem is that the taste is very very fruity on the apple side which implies Acetaldehyde, however, I have left the beer in the bottle for a further month and ageing has had little effect towards this problem, and I thought eatery/fruity was the style for hefe-weizens. I made this before and it was perfect, but no end of head-scratching has managed to figure where the problem lies, but I suspect yeast behaviour. (See below I used WB-06 and Mangrove Jack strains M20)
The lower pitch temperature ~17oC was used to stress the yeast as was the bring up to 21oC later once fermentation well established. The first batch had a marvellous krausen pattern white with a super brown crinkle pattern, this time just thin same colour light brown I think. The temp was controlled in a fridge, STC plus gaffer tape temp probe. The fermentation seems to have hit or slightly exceeded gravity/strengths as expected. Doesn't seem sour like vinegar to me. Only possible suspicion is mash pH to low cos' pH probe not calibrated may have added too much CRS/AMS, as next time I calibrated they read high at the low end, but I doubt it was under ph5 to be honest. Plenty of oxygenation prior to fermentation, then racked into polykegs and force carbonated so struggling to see how subsequent oxidation could have occurred. The beer was left in primary for 12 days, it had hit its target, I usually keep it on for 2 weeks, would think it needed more time, especially as weiss biers are usually best young.
Even with split yeast trial, both have this undrinkable fruity issue, which is undrinkable really, although I have a mate who added lime and didn't let an off-flavour get in his way. Both were over-fruity, the MJG M20 slightly more so, but no great difference.
Mashing, Boil, ingredients all seemed good, only other thing was I made higher gravity and diluted down 20% with final og1.054, unless I forgot, I usually whack a camp den tablet in the HLT and use the de-chlorinated water for this dilution, but if I didn't would it have such an effect ?
Out-of-ideas,..... aspiring to get back to great first batch.
Problem is that the taste is very very fruity on the apple side which implies Acetaldehyde, however, I have left the beer in the bottle for a further month and ageing has had little effect towards this problem, and I thought eatery/fruity was the style for hefe-weizens. I made this before and it was perfect, but no end of head-scratching has managed to figure where the problem lies, but I suspect yeast behaviour. (See below I used WB-06 and Mangrove Jack strains M20)
The lower pitch temperature ~17oC was used to stress the yeast as was the bring up to 21oC later once fermentation well established. The first batch had a marvellous krausen pattern white with a super brown crinkle pattern, this time just thin same colour light brown I think. The temp was controlled in a fridge, STC plus gaffer tape temp probe. The fermentation seems to have hit or slightly exceeded gravity/strengths as expected. Doesn't seem sour like vinegar to me. Only possible suspicion is mash pH to low cos' pH probe not calibrated may have added too much CRS/AMS, as next time I calibrated they read high at the low end, but I doubt it was under ph5 to be honest. Plenty of oxygenation prior to fermentation, then racked into polykegs and force carbonated so struggling to see how subsequent oxidation could have occurred. The beer was left in primary for 12 days, it had hit its target, I usually keep it on for 2 weeks, would think it needed more time, especially as weiss biers are usually best young.
Even with split yeast trial, both have this undrinkable fruity issue, which is undrinkable really, although I have a mate who added lime and didn't let an off-flavour get in his way. Both were over-fruity, the MJG M20 slightly more so, but no great difference.
Mashing, Boil, ingredients all seemed good, only other thing was I made higher gravity and diluted down 20% with final og1.054, unless I forgot, I usually whack a camp den tablet in the HLT and use the de-chlorinated water for this dilution, but if I didn't would it have such an effect ?
Out-of-ideas,..... aspiring to get back to great first batch.
alby said:
pittsy
Landlord.
Unfortunately i think it may be infection or even yeast mutation . If you want to be over the moon with a hefe try liquid yeast , really it knocks the hats off dried yeast for hefes .
Infections: not really what I like/wanted to hear, but have considered this, unless starsan used for sanitising was not effective (I checked the pH), I used 2 different yeasts and obviously two different FV. Strangely in this case I used 2 different yeast, both dried packet stuff, both well in expiry dates. Other common mode is yeast prep, boil kettle, CFC, tubes. I have made subsequent batches (non-wheaty beer) which are fine. I have had very good results with WB-06 in the past.
I doubt mutation since I had the same off-taste on both strains. As for infection it doesn't taste lacto-vinegary ?
Is it time to get the microscope out ?
I doubt mutation since I had the same off-taste on both strains. As for infection it doesn't taste lacto-vinegary ?
Is it time to get the microscope out ?
I have to agree with Pitsy here, I've had a similar sounding infection in a dunkelweissen. Not all bacterial infections result in vinegar (that would be acetobacter, which isn't very likely unless you managed to get a lot of air in your brew, as they are aerobic) - a mild pediococus infection may not be obviously sour/lactic, but still be buttery/appely/fruity in a mild beer like a weissen.
Sadly I've had a re-occurrence of this infection in my doppelbock, and I had a look at a sample of the beer last night under the microscope. Whilst it is generally not easy to see bacteria in beer under 100x oil-immersion (and my micro-biologist wife has doubted my previous claims to have seen bacteria), this time there were pretty clear chains of cocci. So if you have a microscope, it may be worth a look.
Between these two infections I've made plenty of clean ale. It just seems to be certain brews where it pops up.
Sadly I've had a re-occurrence of this infection in my doppelbock, and I had a look at a sample of the beer last night under the microscope. Whilst it is generally not easy to see bacteria in beer under 100x oil-immersion (and my micro-biologist wife has doubted my previous claims to have seen bacteria), this time there were pretty clear chains of cocci. So if you have a microscope, it may be worth a look.
Between these two infections I've made plenty of clean ale. It just seems to be certain brews where it pops up.
Thanks for the feedback, looks like my knowledge of infections needs expanding. New hoses and triple heat, caustic, clean of CFC are now planned. Also going to sanitise battery drill casing used for whizz stick. FV cleaning seems good already. Suppose, it could be time to dissemble BK ball valve, but I usually have 20min BK recirc anyway.
Frustrating stuff, indeed.
Must be handy, these microbiologist wife things, not seen them in my LHBS :)
Frustrating stuff, indeed.
Must be handy, these microbiologist wife things, not seen them in my LHBS :)
tommidolcetto
Nobody Much
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Maybe try online?
tommidolcetto said:
It's not as great as it sounds. I still have to do all the work (cell counts, starters, etc), but get criticised by someone who knows better...
... so no different than marriage in general really...
regaltabs
Not happy with change
Knocked this one out at the weekend can't wait to taste the results. Hit all the numbers along the way so should be a good one :thumb:
Many thanks To Aleman for posting and maintaining a thread for one of my favourite beers :
Many thanks To Aleman for posting and maintaining a thread for one of my favourite beers :
regaltabs
Not happy with change
So now I'm drinking this I have to say its a great brew once again many thanks Aleman:party:
Cononthebarber
Landlord.
Aleman has gone elsewhere and taken all his recipes and experience with him...you may be able to find the recipe on a different forum...:hmm:
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