Lengie10
Active Member
Can anyone tell me how to add or reduce alcohol content - if it's at all possible? Is it sugar based or is it in the initial stages or brewing? I am using kits so this may be something I cannot control?
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ryanshelton
Landlord.
Don't just go lobbing a kg of sugar in though to up the abv or you'll end up with s very thin beer! Sometimes better adding syrup or something similar depending on your chosen kit :thumb:
Lengie10
Active Member
Current kit is St. Peter's ruby red but thinking more about a cider I am brewing. It's a wilco apple cider. Want to give it bit of oomph as it's for an Easter BBQ. It is a standard 40pt kit so if you can suggest what more sugar I should add? When you suggest syrup....what do you mean..surely not as simple as Tate and Lyle golden syrup???
NickW
Landlord.
For your cider I would replace ALL water required with value 100% apple juice. You should get a higher ABV and a much better cider. No need to add sugar
ryanshelton
Landlord.
Exactly as Nick says. Word of warning though, if it's for Easter it won't be it's best. Cider needs months to age properly
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Lengie10 said:
Never add sugar to cider - the apple can't take it, not enough flavour to balance the alcohol.
Apple juice is the obvious thing to use, but is worth 5 to 6 % by itself: if you want to get higher ABV with plenty of apple flavour, seek out Suma apple juice concentrate (hippyfood shops)
Golden syrup would add a toffee-ish backnote. Could be interesting, but you wouldn't want too much or it'd probably swamp the apple. I've done melomels (fruit flavoured mead) using golden syrup instead of honey - everybody seems to like it, but all my friends like toffee.
PaulCa
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Cider kit + sugar is most likely going to turn out like "White Lightening", ie. cheap alco fuel that tastes like anti-freeze which was once introduced to an apple in the factory. Fine if that's what you want, but for a BBQ party, if your guests get stuck into it eagerly, I'd suggest barf pales.
Lengie10
Active Member
What sort of quantity of syrup and when would it need to be added?? Is this done at initial mix and first ferment or is it something added when you transfer to a secondary FV or barrel?
T&L syrup (big tin)=907g.
Per the label...sugar (carbohydrate) 80.5g per 100g
therefore 730g (approx.) in a full tin.
The whole tin added to your 25l would up the ABV by approx. 2.25%!
If that is the way you want to go then chuck in the syrup when starting your brew.
With regard to making the cider "thin", not as much of an issue as with beer. Also, when priming, add almost double the amount of priming sugar than when making beer, you want a proper "sparkle"!
I have made cider in the past and upped the ABV by simply adding sugar (1kg in 25l adds approx. 3% ABV), certainly not on a par with Weston's Vintage, but perfectly OK to serve to friends at a BBQ especially as it will come with a side order of " I made this myself you know!"
I have used all apple juice in the past, for various different ciders, but "topped up" with sugar to give up to 10% and using champagne yeast. They all turned out perfectly drinkable. :thumb:
(Bin the kit and use apple juice + sugar, if required, + yeast + pectolase (to remove the risk of any pectin haze/cloudiness) at 1tsp per gallon + yeast nutrient, maybe 3tsp in 5 gallons). IMHO any cider/pear cider kit I have tried tends to have a chemical taste and hence the encouragement to bypass the kit and do the whole thing from scratch.
Check out the wine and cider section on this forum for all the info you will need.
I now scrat and press my own apples but still add sugar if the abv isn't up to where I want!
HTH :
Per the label...sugar (carbohydrate) 80.5g per 100g
therefore 730g (approx.) in a full tin.
The whole tin added to your 25l would up the ABV by approx. 2.25%!
If that is the way you want to go then chuck in the syrup when starting your brew.
With regard to making the cider "thin", not as much of an issue as with beer. Also, when priming, add almost double the amount of priming sugar than when making beer, you want a proper "sparkle"!
I have made cider in the past and upped the ABV by simply adding sugar (1kg in 25l adds approx. 3% ABV), certainly not on a par with Weston's Vintage, but perfectly OK to serve to friends at a BBQ especially as it will come with a side order of " I made this myself you know!"
I have used all apple juice in the past, for various different ciders, but "topped up" with sugar to give up to 10% and using champagne yeast. They all turned out perfectly drinkable. :thumb:
(Bin the kit and use apple juice + sugar, if required, + yeast + pectolase (to remove the risk of any pectin haze/cloudiness) at 1tsp per gallon + yeast nutrient, maybe 3tsp in 5 gallons). IMHO any cider/pear cider kit I have tried tends to have a chemical taste and hence the encouragement to bypass the kit and do the whole thing from scratch.
Check out the wine and cider section on this forum for all the info you will need.
I now scrat and press my own apples but still add sugar if the abv isn't up to where I want!
HTH :
Lengie10
Active Member
Just to clarify then....
Only use apple juice. Add golden syrup and pectolase at first ferment along with yeast and nutrient.
Leave for how long? Week? 10 days?
Being new to this I assume priming is bottling stage? If so I add 1/2 teaspoon per bottle or more (you mentioned double so whole tsp per bottle?)
How long is this all then left? 2 weeks? 3 weeks?
Thanks
Only use apple juice. Add golden syrup and pectolase at first ferment along with yeast and nutrient.
Leave for how long? Week? 10 days?
Being new to this I assume priming is bottling stage? If so I add 1/2 teaspoon per bottle or more (you mentioned double so whole tsp per bottle?)
How long is this all then left? 2 weeks? 3 weeks?
Thanks
PaulCa
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Depends on the size of the bottle. 10g per litre makes a fizzy ale. A teaspoon is about 6g, depends on the teaspoon though. A leveled off measuring spoon is about 6g, but even then it depends on the granule size.
This is why batch priming is so much easier.
* Sanitise a bucket and a bowl.
* In the bowl, measure 200g of sugar for a 20 something litre batch.
* Add boiling watch (about 200ml), stir to dissolve.
* Add to clean bucket
* Siphon beer/cider in, pointing the pipe to create a circular current.
* Not bottle from there.
200g can give quite a fizz, but if people are suggesting twice that for cider then you could go for 300g easily. Or wait for a cider person :)
An idea I haven't tried yet, would be to make a known concentration solution of sugar and water and prime the bottles by using a syringe, ie... 10ml = 5g sugar, 5g water for normal bottles, 20ml = 10g for a litre bottle. Depends how concentrated you can make the sugar solution as you won't want much water.
This is why batch priming is so much easier.
* Sanitise a bucket and a bowl.
* In the bowl, measure 200g of sugar for a 20 something litre batch.
* Add boiling watch (about 200ml), stir to dissolve.
* Add to clean bucket
* Siphon beer/cider in, pointing the pipe to create a circular current.
* Not bottle from there.
200g can give quite a fizz, but if people are suggesting twice that for cider then you could go for 300g easily. Or wait for a cider person :)
An idea I haven't tried yet, would be to make a known concentration solution of sugar and water and prime the bottles by using a syringe, ie... 10ml = 5g sugar, 5g water for normal bottles, 20ml = 10g for a litre bottle. Depends how concentrated you can make the sugar solution as you won't want much water.
Lengie10 said:
With ordinary shop-bought apple juice you won't need pectolase. With some of the fancier artisan pressed-by-virgins-under-a-full-moon juices you might.
I like to use half a litre per gallon of SomeOtherJuice to broaden the flavour profile.
Only add golden syrup if you want it stronger than 5.5% and you like a slight toffeeish backnote
I make my ciders about 7% but I do it by using AJ concentrate so I get more apple in as well, to balance the alcohol level better.
If you don't use a cloudy juice, just let it run until it clears
I prime 1tsp per 500ml bottle, but I like it fairly fizzy.
At least 1 week, preferably 2, somewhere warmish, then somewhere cool as long as you can stand waiting.
Lengie10
Active Member
Managed to get the cider made last night. Used 20 litres of co-op value AJ, large tin of golden syrup which I warmed in hot water to make it easier to use. I added about 1.8litres of boiled water, 5tsp of pectolase, yeast and 3tsp of yeast nutrient.
Looked this morning after it being in the FV overnight and not much seems to be happening. It certainly isn't like the beer I have had on for the past 10 days which went very frothy on top which has now fallen away. Should I be seeing anything? It's at about 19 - 21 degrees in temp in accordance with the direction on the cider kit I had planned to use. Do I need to do anything or does cider behave differently to beer?
Looked this morning after it being in the FV overnight and not much seems to be happening. It certainly isn't like the beer I have had on for the past 10 days which went very frothy on top which has now fallen away. Should I be seeing anything? It's at about 19 - 21 degrees in temp in accordance with the direction on the cider kit I had planned to use. Do I need to do anything or does cider behave differently to beer?
1 gallon in a demi with a half sachet yeast forms a foamy top within about 24 hours.
A 23l bin with a single yeast sachet will take a bit longer - and the syrup may slow it a little.
Don't panic yet!
Does it appear to be clouding up as the yeast populates the wort?
Giving it a stir can't hurt...
A 23l bin with a single yeast sachet will take a bit longer - and the syrup may slow it a little.
Don't panic yet!
Does it appear to be clouding up as the yeast populates the wort?
Giving it a stir can't hurt...
Lengie10
Active Member
Didn't use a kit. Was told they can taste very chemical-like? Was advised on here just to use juice and syrup with yeast and yeast nutrient as well as pectolase. Will have a look over the weekend and if needed give it a whirl round to try and liven it up.
ericmark
Regular.
I use kits have done for a year and I both over fill with water and add extra sugar but it's all down to personal taste I started adding more and more sugar until I got to 2.5kg in a kit asking for 1kg realised this was too much and dropped down to 2kg of sugar with the extra water start s.g. around the 1.044 mark however not easy to measure as so easy not to have dissolved and mixed everything so could be a little higher.
Looking at the kits in general that I have made around if you divide the weight of concentrate by 2.5 and then add that to sugar (in grams) divide the result by 20 then further divide by amount of water (in litres) it will give around the ABV of the kit. So for example (2500 + (1500/2.5))/20/25.5 = 6% ABV I am not saying it is spot on but it's some where around the right figure using hydrometer gives me similar results.
Clearly less water will also raise the ABV and likely it will taste better to many peoples pallet it all down to personal taste. Nothing to stop you using 2 cans of concentrate or other ways to adjust the ABV. Kits come with different names and we must assume there is something different in the kit so Yorkshire Bitter with extra sugar may taste rotten but Scottish Heavy may take the extra sugar without a problem.
What I have a problem with is memory and time. I will make a beer taste it and think that's not very good then taste it again a month later and it's great. Also remembering what the Scottish Heavy with 2.5kg tastes like when comparing to Scottish Heavy with 2kg maybe two months later is hard. What you need is a reference point a commercial beer you like of same ABV your aiming for and very careful records comparing what was done to the beer and how it compared. This is where I fall down. Yes keep some records date started date transferred date bottled, amount of water, amount of sugar but then noting the room temperature or the shed temperature where stored sorry not that good and call it conditioning or lagering the temperature will change what the beer tastes like. In the main all my beer will be at least 3 months from starting to drinking that means a lot of storage and loads of time for me to forget what I did.
Looking at the kits in general that I have made around if you divide the weight of concentrate by 2.5 and then add that to sugar (in grams) divide the result by 20 then further divide by amount of water (in litres) it will give around the ABV of the kit. So for example (2500 + (1500/2.5))/20/25.5 = 6% ABV I am not saying it is spot on but it's some where around the right figure using hydrometer gives me similar results.
Clearly less water will also raise the ABV and likely it will taste better to many peoples pallet it all down to personal taste. Nothing to stop you using 2 cans of concentrate or other ways to adjust the ABV. Kits come with different names and we must assume there is something different in the kit so Yorkshire Bitter with extra sugar may taste rotten but Scottish Heavy may take the extra sugar without a problem.
What I have a problem with is memory and time. I will make a beer taste it and think that's not very good then taste it again a month later and it's great. Also remembering what the Scottish Heavy with 2.5kg tastes like when comparing to Scottish Heavy with 2kg maybe two months later is hard. What you need is a reference point a commercial beer you like of same ABV your aiming for and very careful records comparing what was done to the beer and how it compared. This is where I fall down. Yes keep some records date started date transferred date bottled, amount of water, amount of sugar but then noting the room temperature or the shed temperature where stored sorry not that good and call it conditioning or lagering the temperature will change what the beer tastes like. In the main all my beer will be at least 3 months from starting to drinking that means a lot of storage and loads of time for me to forget what I did.
ericmark
Regular.
Missed the bit about cider I would not add sugar to cider it's high enough as it stands. I have juiced my apples and let them ferment and it was very dry except for the pear. I added sucralose based sweetener which seemed to work well. On pouring a drink have added sugar to taste but not left it to re-ferment. Used two apple and a pear tree and did it in batches no two were the same. Some had a very fluid sediment others it went rock hard. The crust on most reduced in time but really took a long time still have one demijohn of last Autumns apple cider still not ready to bottle. Never tried a kit have enough real cider without needing to buy in stuff.
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