AG/PG advice needed

[MashBag]

Sorry I misread... that comment was for @Thorbz

 

[kenstel]

Sorry I misread... that comment was for @Thorbz

OK. I imagine though, in my position of ignorance, that I'd probably do the same. I imagine it's a lot quicker to set up a pot than AIO, less cleaning, less fuss. Unless of course they're the same size.

If your AIO is electric and you have a gas cooker, it gives a choice.

Of course I've never done either so I'm just as I said, imagining how it might be.

If you were warming a tin of soup, would you get a 15L pot out, or a small saucepan.

That's another thing, a stockpot can probably go in the dishwasher, not so an AIO. I hate washing up so that's a big plus for me.

 

[kenstel]

Ok
I'm having problems finding a pot/vessel that is in stock and affordable and reasonable quality.

I've seen lots of ultra cheap pots around £20 for 15-20 litres but most of them look like they won't last 5 minutes, and there are reports of some rusting after a few uses.

I've looked at 'proper' kettles as well as kitchen pots. I've got a few earmarked but haven't decided on any yet.

So, I may have to wait for better pots to come into stock, or wait until New Year and hope for a price reduction on those that are in stock.

In the meantime, can I use a pot that's too small to fit everything in by perhaps using smaller water volume and then

adding water to the FV to the required volume?
or
by draining the wort into the FV and then sparging with water to take the wort to the expected volume?

Or alternatively, splitting the recipe in half so it fits into the pot and brewing twice. I know that's twice as much work so it would have to offer advantages over any other method.

I've also thought of trying ultra small runs (3 litres or so). This has the advantage of allowing lots of different recipes without tying up too much space for bottle storage. The problem with this is that I have a 15L fermenter bucket so they'll be a large headspace and from what I've read that is a problem. The smallest FB I've seen is 10L,so again a big head space.

Or is there a different way I haven't thought of?

Also, if I were to buy grain, either individually or a kit. If I split them, will they keep? Same with splitting yeast or hops, will they keep one opened?

 

[dlowe1992]

Ok
I'm having problems finding a pot/vessel that is in stock and affordable and reasonable quality.

I've seen lots of ultra cheap pots around £20 for 15-20 litres but most of them look like they won't last 5 minutes, and there are reports of some rusting after a few uses.

I've looked at 'proper' kettles as well as kitchen pots. I've got a few earmarked but haven't decided on any yet.

So, I may have to wait for better pots to come into stock, or wait until New Year and hope for a price reduction on those that are in stock.

In the meantime, can I use a pot that's too small to fit everything in by perhaps using smaller water volume and then

adding water to the FV to the required volume?
or
by draining the wort into the FV and then sparging with water to take the wort to the expected volume?

Or alternatively, splitting the recipe in half so it fits into the pot and brewing twice. I know that's twice as much work so it would have to offer advantages over any other method.

I've also thought of trying ultra small runs (3 litres or so). This has the advantage of allowing lots of different recipes without tying up too much space for bottle storage. The problem with this is that I have a 15L fermenter bucket so they'll be a large headspace and from what I've read that is a problem. The smallest FB I've seen is 10L,so again a big head space.

Or is there a different way I haven't thought of?

Also, if I were to buy grain, either individually or a kit. If I split them, will they keep? Same with splitting yeast or hops, will they keep one opened?

I’ve done 7 (I think…) brews , 2 extract, 5 AG in an 11.5L stock pot I picked up from our local dunelm in a sale.

Mostly small batches of around 6L. I have done a couple of 8L and one 20L.

In short, in my experience the methods you propose work, they just involve varying degrees of work!

I’ve figured that about 7L batches are the most I can do in my pot without a boil-over. The bigger batches I had to use another saucepan and split the batch until the hot break calmed down.

‘Liquoring back’ ie brewing strong and adding water to the FV, is perfectly acceptable. My 20L batch was two 7.5L brews with a 5L FV top up.

You can also add some dried malt extract at the end of the boil and then top up the FV with water as a quick way to increase the final volume of beer without losing strength.

In short, a stove top pot doesn’t mean only small batches. A great cheap way into AG. Sink £30 on a pot and get hooked like the rest of us

Having said all that, it can be a pain in the a$$ and I’m now looking into an electric AIO system

 

[kenstel]

Having said all that, it can be a pain in the a$$ and I’m now looking into an electric AIO system

You sounded like a good advocate for stove top brewing until that last sentence

Dunelm? Not checked them. We've got one a couple of miles away. I'll check them out.

Just had a thought. I could split the batch into 2 pans and cook both at same time. Yeah, perhaps more work than one big batch. Especially close to hot break. Definitely do not want a boil over.... my brewing career could be cut very short if that happened.

Small batches would allow me to try recipes out faster without too much 'inventory' of empty bottles and brewed beer. That cuts the money tied up and allows more recipe testing.

The problem with headspace in the fermenter remains though.

 

[MmmBeer]

I started with the Wilko stock pot and made many good beers with it.

Wilko's obviously no longer with us, but spotted this the other day, which looked identical.

George SS Stock Pot

It may look a thin gauge, but they're plenty tough enough.

 

[dlowe1992]

You sounded like a good advocate for stove top brewing until that last sentence

Dunelm? Not checked them. We've got one a couple of miles away. I'll check them out.

Just had a thought. I could split the batch into 2 pans and cook both at same time. Yeah, perhaps more work than one big batch. Especially close to hot break. Definitely do not want a boil over.... my brewing career could be cut very short if that happened.

Small batches would allow me to try recipes out faster without too much 'inventory' of empty bottles and brewed beer. That cuts the money tied up and allows more recipe testing.

The problem with headspace in the fermenter remains though.

Haha, definitely still an advocate. And I wouldn’t be seriously considering an AIO but for the fact my wife says I can spend the money if it means I can brew outside

Trial and error on a small scale appealed to me as well. Two iffy batches so far and advice on this forum helped me nail down problems.

RE fermentor headspace, I use 10L buckets from my local home brew shop for £5 each. Should be perfect for you..

 

[kenstel]

I’ve done 7 (I think…) brews , 2 extract, 5 AG in an 11.5L stock pot I picked up from our local dunelm in a sale.

Dunelm website shows a 11L @ £25 and 14L for £60.

The smaller is available click and collect and in stock at a branch about 20 minutes away. The larger isn't available c&c so perhaps not held in stock, and Internet only.

 

[kenstel]

Wilko's obviously no longer with us, but spotted this the other day, which looked identical.

George SS Stock Pot

It may look a thin gauge, but they're plenty tough enough.

Wilko website shows 15L made by Tramontina. Robert Dyas The Range, Amazon.co.uk and Wayfair also sell the same one all between £55-60.

Problem is not being able to see it first.

 

[kenstel]

George SS Stock Pot

My local ASDA definitely doesn't have this in store, I looked last week and they only had typical 5-7 Litres free in stock. Might have a look at a bigger branch about 20 minutes drive away, wish their website had branch stock levels. Alas, the 2p,minuted is in the opposite direction to Dunelm lol.

Thanks for all your comments. Got a little bit to think about.

Any comments about splitting grains, hops etc and shelf life afterwards?

 

[jof]

I did my first few partial grain brews in a large steamer, topping up with spray malt in the FV.
Even used one of the steaming tiers for first attempts at sparging.
I got a bigger stock pot after I had an boil over type incident as I tried increasing the grain to spraymalt ratio.

 

[kenstel]

Yep jof, the dreaded boil over. I've heard of it and it's on the verge of giving me sleepless nights. Or, rather, the consequences from Mrs K is.

 

[kenstel]

But that prompts another question. Doesn't the spray malt affect the flavour. Or LME come to that?

 

[kenstel]

I started with the Wilko stock pot and made many good beers with it.

Wilko's obviously no longer with us, but spotted this the other day, which looked identical.

George SS Stock Pot

It may look a thin gauge, but they're plenty tough enough.

Thanks Mmm
I only had time to go to Dunelm or the next nearest branch of Asda. As Dunelm cogent show their larger pot as in stock, and the smaller one being a bit too small for comfort, I went to Asda.

There, I picked up the last of the pot you mention. It's not bad but the glass lid is a bit flimsy,but as it won't be used much it doesn't matter. Pot is reasonably well made, a few machining/drawing marks but heavier than expected. Doesn't say what grade it is so probably in the 304 series, 18/8 or 18/6 depending on origin.

Good looking pot though and looking forward to using it. Just waiting for my grain kits to arrive.

 

[clib]

I made 16L of bitter in my 20L pot yesterday and then added water to make it up to 20L at my target gravity.

 

[kenstel]

I made 16L of bitter in my 20L pot yesterday and then added water to make it up to 20L at my target gravity.

Was 16L what you started with, or finished with? I'm curious how much evaporation there was.

 

[clib]

Was 16L what you started with, or finished with? I'm curious how much evaporation there was.

I finished with 16L and will liquor back post fermentation. I think I used 19l of water. Thereabouts. 15 mash 4 sparge.

 

[dreaddan]

I used a 11l asda stock pot to do 5l batches (they still do a 25l one for £25 https://groceries.asda.com/product/...ilver-stainless-steel-stock-pot/1000383183092)
Which could get tight at times in headroom.
If you have an idea of what recipe you want to do there is also a calculator to would out pot size too
https://biabcalculator.com/

 

[Frisp]

10L is the largest of want to do, mostly I'd be making less than that, as I said, more varieties and faster equipment turn around, there's only so much I can drink and I dislike drinking the same stuff all the time.

Im very much with you on that one..

 

[Frisp]

Any comments about splitting grains, hops etc and shelf life afterwards?

Having stored milled grains in the past there is a definate loss of freshness over time, whole grain not so much of an issue. I personally wouldnt order grain for a 23L brew and split it.

I too am going to be brewing smaller batches this time round and the following is how Ill sort out my grain and hop purchasing

Go into Brewfather, search their recipe library, copy one you fancy across to your profile , or recreate a new recipe (with all the paramaters, including batch size even if its something crazy like 80L) that you found elsewhere.

Then use the scale function in Brewfather to scale the recipe down to 10L (Its the wee scales of justice icon at the top of the recipe) . The software will adjust all the quantities to give you the exact amounts of grain and hops you need for that batch size.

Once you have done that go on to TMM Website, and select their recipe generator, replicate the adjusted brewfather recipe and save the recipe under your TMM login

When you wanna do a brew simply select your recipe on TMM, click order and it will arive in the quantity you need for your batch size , no waste ,no storage.


PS other brewer supplies may offer a similar recipe builder / ordering system but Im just using TMM as an example for you