AG/PG advice needed

[kenstel]

I'd like to try some all grain or part grain brewing. But I want to make small batches - faster turnover, more variety, quicker recipe development etc.

So I don't need a big AIO, stove top brewing will do.

Is there any way to estimate what size vessel I need for a particular batch size? Eg 50% bigger than liquid volume, 100% etc? I don't want to buy a pot bigger (more expensive) than I need, but obviously don't want to take the risk of it boiling over.

 

[Rwilts]

If you put the recipe into brewfather it will tell you water volumes, I suppose you could make up a recipe, see how much water is says you will need and that could give you a clue tinpot size

 

[Thorbz]

I have an AIO, but use a 15L stockpot for stovetop brewing. This size is fine for 10-12L batches, which is what I'd consider the smallest amount worth brewing.

 

[foxy]

I have an AIO, but use a 15L stockpot for stovetop brewing. This size is fine for 10-12L batches, which is what I'd consider the smallest amount worth brewing.

Why not use your SVB and go full-volume mash? It will make you a better beer.

 

[kenstel]

I have an AIO, but use a 15L stockpot for stovetop brewing. This size is fine for 10-12L batches, which is what I'd consider the smallest amount worth brewing.

10L is the largest of want to do, mostly I'd be making less than that, as I said, more varieties and faster equipment turn around, there's only so much I can drink and I dislike drinking the same stuff all the time.

A 15L vessel wild seem a good size to look for, but I was thinking, am I right in thinking that shine recipes will have more grain than others for the same yield? So one recipe might fit OK in a 10L pot, whilst another giving the same beer volume might not, simply because the recipe has more grains? So, err on the safe side perhaps?

Apart from that, how feasible is it to get a normal (say 23L) AG kit, and split it in half, use half and keep half for later use?

 

[foxy]

10L is the largest of want to do, mostly I'd be making less than that, as I said, more varieties and faster equipment turn around, there's only so much I can drink and I dislike drinking the same stuff all the time.

A 15L vessel wild seem a good size to look for, but I was thinking, am I right in thinking that shine recipes will have more grain than others for the same yield? So one recipe might fit OK in a 10L pot, whilst another giving the same beer volume might not, simply because the recipe has more grains? So, err on the safe side perhaps?

Apart from that, how feasible is it to get a normal (say 23L) AG kit, and split it in half, use half and keep half for later use?

The grains for a 10-litre full-volume mash would be negligible. I have no idea what shine recipes are.
Yes, you can split the kit if you request the grains to be in separate bags.
If you have an SVB what size is it? No reason you can't do a 10 or 12-litre batch into the fermenter. Just adjust the grain bill by about 20%. so a 2.5 kg grain bill would need another 500 grams of grain.

 

[kenstel]

Lol, that's the damn auto correct on my phone! What I meant was "some"
Ie "am I right in thinking that some recipes will have more grain than others for the same yield? So one recipe might fit OK in a 10L pot, whilst another giving the same beer volume might not, simply because the recipe has more grain?"

Why do you say to add more grain to the bill?

No, I don't have an SVBS or AIO. Was thinking of one but realised I want to do small batches.

If the grains, yeast and hops were split, how long would they stay viable?

 

[kenstel]

So, if I went ahead with this size of brew, is it possible to do this BIAB? The only bags I've seen (but have not really looked) have been for larger AIO size vessels ie 30L or thereabouts.

Also, is it feasible to do this without a bag, by straining or filtering out the grain? Excuse my ignorance as I've never seen AG brew spent, but what size is the grain/filter?

 

[Twostage]

There's quite a range of sizes at The Home Brew Shop, I'm sure other stores will do them too. Or if you or someone you know is handy with a needle and thread or a sewing machine you can make one from voile (net curtain), put a drawstring through the top and tie the bottom with another string (wrapped round a few times so it doesn't slip). Having the bottom tied rather than sewn up makes it easier to clean.

You could just mash and strain/rinse it but the advantage of a bag is you can squeeze it to get the sugary wort out.

 

[Sandimas]

I use a 15L stockpot on the hob to do 10-12L AG BIAB brews. If things get a bit tight volume-wise, you can always top up with water in the FV.

Nowadays I supplement this with 1kg DME which allows me to do ~20L brews, topping up in the FV. If you do a reduced-volume boil as I do, you need to compensate with additional hops: calculators are available e.g. Brewers Friend.

 

[kenstel]

HA! Thanks 2stage. I hadn't come across that shop before, they have a small straining bag @£6 which would probably do, and others too. I'll browse the shop later. (cooking dinner atm - or so her indoors thinks)

 

[kenstel]

Thanks Sandimas. I'll read & digest your post later, I SHOULD really be getting on with dinner.

 

[Tanglefoot]

This will do you
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/grain-bag-with-tie-cord/?v=79cba1185463

A 15L vessel wild seem a good size to look for, but I was thinking, am I right in thinking that some recipes will have more grain than others for the same yield?

The amount of grain you use is dependable on what style and strength beer you are making.

As suggested earlier, making your own recipes on Brewfather or similar is a good way to get your head around water volumes, grain bills, IBUs and everything else that goes into planning a brew.

It will calculate total water and the mash volume I.e with the addition of the grains.
In my case ( BIAB no sparge ) a 10L batch at 5% abv has a mash volume just under 16L
I could sparge with a smaller pot for the same volume but I'd rather adjust the grain bill a little and save the hassle.


I'd advise getting a bigger pot than you think you'll need, it's good to have plenty of room.

 

[Sadfield]

Is there any way to estimate what size vessel I need for a particular batch size?

You'll be looking at roughly 0.05kg per litre of grain for every 1% abv. So, approximately 2.5Kg for 10L at 5%.

Grain will absorb around 1L of water for every Kg.

Water lost to evaporation during the boil should ideally be around 6%, but can be twice that with a strong vigorous boil.

So, for that 10L batch using 2.5kg of grain, you'll ideally need room for 13.25L ((10+2.5)x1.06) of water at the start of the boil. Plus some head space to avoid boiling over.

 

[kenstel]

Sandimas, thanks. 15L seemed about right Very educational until I read Tanglefoots post. Yep, safety margin required, I dislike cleaning the cooker at the best of times. Things I read have convinced me to avoid wort boiling over. I am prone to letting things boil over.

Tanglefoot & Sadfield, thanks a lot, good illustrations, the numbers make things clear. Probably looking at 18 or 20L pot to be safe.

I've tried looking at Brewfather.... headache. I don't have any of my own recipes. I'll have to look around and try crunching the numbers.

 

[kenstel]

This will do you
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/grain-bag-with-tie-cord/?v=79cba1185463

I bloody looked at TMM! The only bags they had were much bigger. I've just looked again, and if you search for 'bag', that bag doesn't appear in the list - using your link, I could see the cost, so with my search results, I ordered them in cost order and it's not there.

Anyway, thanks for pointing that out. A lesson learned about TMMs search results.

It's maybe a bit small for the size of pot I now think I need, but it's OK for 5L batches. I assume the grain is put in and the cord pulled tight and the bag left floating in the pan? Doesn't matter what size the pan is then. I've only seen bags draped over the brim of the pan (which this one won't do for my new size pan) but those demos were of the usual 30L pans. Lots of things to think about.

 

[kenstel]

Now I need a pot...

 

[Tanglefoot]

It's maybe a bit small for the size of pot I now think I need, but it's OK for 5L batches. I assume the grain is put in and the cord pulled tight and the bag left floating in the pan?

That bag will be fine, I use a similar one on an 8 gallon pan.
You just put the bag in pan and tighten the cord round the rim, then lift out after the mash.

 

[MashBag]

Can you not use the AIO you have and just mod the overflow at whatever volume. Loads of room for boiling too. Sorted.

Purchase: Two silicone bungs if required later for full volume.

 

[kenstel]

Point taken Tanglefoot.

MashBag, I don't have an AIO.