ACE Microbrewery

[grmski]

I thought the recirculating was to 'wash'/move the grains during the mash and to keep a constant temperature throughout the grain bed?

If you look at a silly example - if you just use the calculation to arrive at the mash volume, it may be possible to arrive at less than 6 litres of mash water. This wouldn't cover any of the grains (other than by recirculating) and I thought that you had to at least make sure the grains were covered with water. Again, as I have brewed with mine yet, I'm not sure.

Yes, you're right and that's why I made the original post so perhaps we should be looking at a volume of 3l/kg + 6 L to mash and subtract that from the total volume to reach the sparge volume.

 

[Millemg]

I thought the recirculating was to 'wash'/move the grains during the mash and to keep a constant temperature throughout the grain bed?

If you look at a silly example - if you just use the calculation to arrive at the mash volume, it may be possible to arrive at less than 6 litres of mash water. This wouldn't cover any of the grains (other than by recirculating) and I thought that you had to at least make sure the grains were covered with water. Again, as I have not brewed with mine yet, I'm not sure.

Edit: If 15 litres works for mashing, then you need to look at something like 3 litres per kg (which includes the 6l deadspace) or 2.5l/kg plus 6 litres.

If you only used 6L for mash, your pump would run dry

 

[Millemg]

Yes, you're right and that's why I made the original post so perhaps we should be looking at a volume of 3l/kg + 6 L to mash and subtract that from the total volume to reach the sparge volume.

All my brews so far are 15L / 15L ... always yielding exactly 23 L after boil, so I'm sticking with that ballpark figure :thumb:

 

[Pavros]

That's exactly what I thought - so you have to add in 'some extra' volume (up to 6 litres) when arriving at the mash volume

 

[grmski]

If that works then great I'm just trying to figure out why mine isn't getting that. I've made 2 brews and both were down on final volume and above gravity so need to be liquored back in the FV. One back to 23 L hit target gravity the other had to be made short to match gravity. So I've got the 3rd planed tomorrow and want to have 23l into FV at the correct gravity without diluting it. I could do this on my old BIAB set up and SHOULD be able to achieve it now.

Using the 3 l/kg + 6 litres on 4.7kg grain bill gives a strike volume of 20 litres and a sparge of 17.8 (using brewmate) . So a total of 37.8l which should end up with 23l into fv at 1050 with assumed efficiency of 77%. That being the case how does mine differ from yours if you can use only 30 litres and still hit target volume? By these numbers you're losing 7 litres to boil, absorbtion and losses whereas I'm losing 14. How long are you boiling for?

 

[Millemg]

If that works then great I'm just trying to figure out why mine isn't getting that. I've made 2 brews and both were down on final volume and above gravity so need to be liquored back in the FV. One back to 23 L hit target gravity the other had to be made short to match gravity. So I've got the 3rd planed tomorrow and want to have 23l into FV at the correct gravity without diluting it. I could do this on my old BIAB set up and SHOULD be able to achieve it now.

Using the 3 l/kg + 6 litres on 4.7kg grain bill gives a strike volume of 20 litres and a sparge of 17.8 (using brewmate) . So a total of 37.8l which should end up with 23l into fv at 1050 with assumed efficiency of 77%. That being the case how does mine differ from yours if you can use only 30 litres and still hit target volume? By these numbers you're losing 7 litres to boil, absorbtion and losses whereas I'm losing 14. How long are you boiling for?

After sparging, my volume is 30L , I boil for 90 mins ..... 4 brews, all yielded 23L , but maybe a bit higher OG, which is fine by me

 

[Millemg]

After sparging, my volume is 30L , I boil for 90 mins ..... 4 brews, all yielded 23L , but maybe a bit higher OG, which is fine by me

Are you doing a mad 2500w boil ?? I knock mine down to 2200w , nice rolling boil.

 

[dps51]

I got my rolling boil down to 1800w.
did try 1700w but would not do a good boil

 

[grmski]

Are you doing a mad 2500w boil ?? I knock mine down to 2200w , nice rolling boil.

Yes, the boil is full power, so I could dial that back and see what happens.

 

[Pavros]

Also, if using the 3l/kg formula, you wouldn't have to add the full 6 litres so all volumes and losses would be lower and therefore more comparable to Millemg's, wouldn't they?

 

[grmski]

I got my rolling boil down to 1800w.
did try 1700w but would not do a good boil

That's good to know, so my extra losses could be extra evaporation due to excess boil off.

 

[Millemg]

Yes, the boil is full power, so I could dial that back and see what happens.

Full power is too high, I get mine up to boil at 2500w then drop it , maybe you're steaming too much :smile:

 

[grmski]

Also, if using the 3l/kg formula, you wouldn't have to add the full 6 litres so all volumes and losses would be lower and therefore more comparable to Millemg's, wouldn't they?

3l/kg on the 4.7kg grain bill comes in at 14.2l. Increase it to include the 6l's and the ratio effectively becomes 4l/kg with 20l strike volume.

 

[Millemg]

3l/kg on the 4.7kg grain bill comes in at 14.2l. Increase it to include the 6l's and the ratio effectively becomes 4l/kg with 20l strike volume.

I'm going to try 14L / 20L sparge next time and see if my OG isn't as high.

 

[grmski]

This is all helpful.
So I think what I'll do is knock back the boil to 1800w and lower the strike volume to a 3.4l/kg ratio which gives a strike volume of 16l. By knocking back the power I think the % evaporation will reduce so I'm setting this to 10% and Brewmate comes ups with total water 32.45L (16L mash + 16.45 sparge).

Lets see what happens tomorrow.

 

[grmski]

I'm going to try 14L / 20L sparge next time and see if my OG isn't as high.

If the volumes work correctly but the OG is above target then doesn't that mean the efficiency is better than you're expecting and need adjusting?

 

[Millemg]

This is all helpful.
So I think what I'll do is knock back the boil to 1800w and lower the strike volume to a 3.4l/kg ratio which gives a strike volume of 16l. By knocking back the power I think the % evaporation will reduce so I'm setting this to 10% and Brewmate comes ups with total water 32.45L (16L mash + 16.45 sparge).

Lets see what happens tomorrow.

That's about mine then :thumb:

 

[grmski]

That's about mine then :thumb:

Indeed if it's as simple as dialing back the boil to get what I'm expecting then I'll be very happy.:thumb:

 

[Millemg]

Indeed if it's as simple as dialing back the boil to get what I'm expecting then I'll be very happy.:thumb:

Let us know :)

 

[grmski]

Let us know :)

Will do, this could all be useful for others to know when working out their volumes as well.

Cheers