Ace electric boilers?

[BeerCat]

It's always good to have company on the road to a garage full of shiny things and certain divorce!

Might be worth asking ACE for the washer spec before ebaying them...

I'll post up some pics once I have the PID, dimmer, and voltmeter assembled.

This is what i am planning on doing. Very interesting project. At least it will be an excuse to visit my friend and go to some pubs. After he checks my work :). I ordered the same potentiometer (variable resistor isn't it called?) as yours and an amp meter but after reading again i think a voltmeter might be better. Or both of them. :lol:
Any idea of what type and size box you plan on using? Don't wanna get one too small.
And anyone what size boxes do people uses for the stc100?

 

[Fil]

for an stc1000 consider boxes with twice the volume of the controller at least otherwise the tail end of lead in/out grommets, the leggo brick connector or its equivelant and the connecting wiring will be difficult to cram in too.. £ shops sell some nice click top sandwich boxes pour/spray paint on the inside if you dont like the translucent effect

if using a volt/amp meter with a resistor controlled SSR, take live power in from the out side of the ssr to read the output voltage under control otherwise it will simply display the supply voltage, the amperage is detected by induction when you thread the SSR ouput live wire through the meters 'polo mint' component. If mounting with the heatsink for the ssr internal to a box it would be worth considering adding vents and a fan, the standard ssr heatsink combo can be mounted with the heatsink external simply by using the ssr/heatsink connecting screws to secure a couple of diy lugs you can secure(epoxy?) to your box inside.

 

[donchiquon]

Any idea of what type and size box you plan on using? Don't wanna get one too small.

I've gone for 19 x24 X 11 deep. Should give a comfortable amount of room for everything and allow for good airflow.

Here's progress so far. I am bribing my competent electrician with homebrew which is a delicate balance.

 

[BeerCat]

Nice one, that looks really neat. Whats is the socket to the left of the PID (bottom photo) for? I nearly have all the bits apart from the box. Also like your voltmeter. I ordered an analogue amp meter but i think yours is cooler.
I bought one of these pumps from ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301818219657?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT and realised when i got it the screw on attachments are not 1/2". Or maybe the screw on bit is but what are they called or do people use an adapter. Really getting close to having all the parts lol. One day.
On a side note i finally got a stainless steep paddle. What a difference that makes, cant believe i struggled with a too short bendy spoon for so long.

 

[donchiquon]

Nice one, that looks really neat. Whats is the socket to the left of the PID (bottom photo) for? I nearly have all the bits apart from the box. Also like your voltmeter. I ordered an analogue amp meter but i think yours is cooler.
I bought one of these pumps from ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301818219657?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT and realised when i got it the screw on attachments are not 1/2". Or maybe the screw on bit is but what are they called or do people use an adapter. Really getting close to having all the parts lol. One day.
On a side note i finally got a stainless steep paddle. What a difference that makes, cant believe i struggled with a too short bendy spoon for so long.

Evening Beercat!

The extra socket is to plug the PT100 temp
probe into as I've had it finished with a plug (see pic) so that I can disconnect it. Not essential.

I did exactly the same with the pump! I used a couple of offcuts of pvc siphon tube to act as a packer between the smaller barb and the larger Sillicone hose. Worked fine until I replaced them.

Been away from home for a month now, and looking forward to getting back to the mountains and brewing again! It will be interesting to see how much the new box improves the mash or simply gives me something else to cock up! :)

 

[Bunglebrewsbeer]

What is that box/set up designed to run? I'm after something along these lines.


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[donchiquon]

What is that box/set up designed to run? I'm after something along these lines.

Hi Bungle

The box could be used with any vessel with an electrical element that would benefit from a PID controlling the temperature.

I wanted it specifically to use with a recirculating mash on the ACE boilers, and put a dimmer into the circuit so that I could lower the power on the 1600w element.

I was hoping this would produce a gentler heat during the mash rather than having the element run at 100% power for v really short periods.

I tested the dimmer together with an Inkbird 308 on a mash earlier in this thread. The result was very tasty - I had to empty an ice cream box to house it. Overall it worked well and held a much more stable temperature but I wanted to couple it with a PID, an in-line temperature probes, and a shiny box.

 

[Bunglebrewsbeer]

I want to have a box to run an element in the HLT from and a display showing the temp from the outlet of the mash tun as it heads to the HERMS coil. But I'm clueless with electrics.


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[Fil]

ebay a 30a temperature controller http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X30a+temperature+controller.TRS0&_nkw=30a+temperature+controller&_sacat=0

similar in size and shape to the popular stc1000 fridge controller but with only 1 x 30a relay fitted rather than 2 x 10a so will heat Or cool and will handle elements which draw more that 10a without burning out..

to box use a big enough container (��£shop snap lock sandwich boxes are cheap n chearful and use a suitable 15a lego brick connector

In addition to the 'lego brick', a box, and the controller, you will need
3 x grommets 1 for power in 1 for the boiler/element lead, and 1 for the sensor. 3 x lengths of 1.5mm sq flex wire (2 x brown n 1 x blue would be good)


to wire up , screw the live, neutral, and earth leads from the power input lead into a separate terminals in the lego brick.

from the live and neutral terminals use 2x lengths of wire to connect the control box power in terminals (CLEARLY MARKED POWER IN) polarity isnt an issue..

Then take the 3rd bit of wire and connect live from the lego brick to one side of the controller relay terminals.(again clearly marked on the controller.

Then connect the out leads neutral and earth wires to Neutral and earth at the terminal block and connect the live wire from the output side to the other relay terminal on the controller. - DONE..


a pid and ssr/heatsink could also be used but imho a pid is overkill
and while the temp may overshoot by a fraction of a degree with a simple on/off controller a litre jug of cold tap water is an easy adjuster if needed which i doubt..

ps remember to give the hlt a good stir to normalise the temp throughout before drawing as if left any length of time at target temp the liquor can layer out into cooler below and warmer above the probe point. resulting in a cooler than expected draw from the hlt if not stirred up.

 

[Bunglebrewsbeer]

What size element would that be able to run then? I know nothing of electrics. Plugs are about as technical as I get.


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[donchiquon]

I want to have a box to run an element in the HLT from and a display showing the temp from the outlet of the mash tun as it heads to the HERMS coil.

I think I'd probably agree with Fil. On the ACE boiler we're trying to use a relatively large element to heat a small moving body of wort, which is tricky.

If you're looking to keep a larger body of water at a stable temperature this is easier and probably doesn't warrant a PID.

One easy option if you don't have someone to tap up for electrical assistance may be to use an Inkbird 308. I've used these to keep an HLT at a stable temperature successfully. I just dangled the temperature probe into the centre of the vessel. You might want to check with Inkbird that there are no issues with your wattage of element. Mine was fine at 1600W.

 

[Fil]

What size element would that be able to run then? I know nothing of electrics. Plugs are about as technical as I get.


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a 30a relay will safely switch any load you can plug into a 13a socket.. plenty of headroom,

 

[BeerCat]

for an stc1000 consider boxes with twice the volume of the controller at least otherwise the tail end of lead in/out grommets, the leggo brick connector or its equivelant and the connecting wiring will be difficult to cram in too.. ��£ shops sell some nice click top sandwich boxes pour/spray paint on the inside if you dont like the translucent effect

if using a volt/amp meter with a resistor controlled SSR, take live power in from the out side of the ssr to read the output voltage under control otherwise it will simply display the supply voltage, the amperage is detected by induction when you thread the SSR ouput live wire through the meters 'polo mint' component. If mounting with the heatsink for the ssr internal to a box it would be worth considering adding vents and a fan, the standard ssr heatsink combo can be mounted with the heatsink external simply by using the ssr/heatsink connecting screws to secure a couple of diy lugs you can secure(epoxy?) to your box inside.

Thanks Fil, only just seen this. Thinking about all this along with the booze surely gives me a headache. Will get there though, cheers. :)

 

[BeerCat]

Evening Beercat!

The extra socket is to plug the PT100 temp
probe into as I've had it finished with a plug (see pic) so that I can disconnect it. Not essential.

I did exactly the same with the pump! I used a couple of offcuts of pvc siphon tube to act as a packer between the smaller barb and the larger Sillicone hose. Worked fine until I replaced them.

Been away from home for a month now, and looking forward to getting back to the mountains and brewing again! It will be interesting to see how much the new box improves the mash or simply gives me something else to cock up! :)

Cheers my friend looks like its coming together really well. This thread is definitely really helping me get my head around many possibilities.

A few more ?'s for a change. :lol:

Does the temp probe plug into a thermowell or is that designed to be screwed into the boiler? If not i presume a thermowell would be easy to fit with the right drill bit?
What exactly are the connectors on the pump called. Need to order the correct size.
What size box is that? Seems to be a shortage of suitable boxes on ebay unless i am searching for the wrong thing. More than possible.

 

[donchiquon]

Cheers my friend looks like its coming together really well. This thread is definitely really helping me get my head around many possibilities.

A few more ?'s for a change. :lol:

Does the temp probe plug into a thermowell or is that designed to be screwed into the boiler? If not i presume a thermowell would be easy to fit with the right drill bit?
What exactly are the connectors on the pump called. Need to order the correct size.
What size box is that? Seems to be a shortage of suitable boxes on ebay unless i am searching for the wrong thing. More than possible.

Hi Beercat

The box is 19 X 24 X 11 - I wouldn't want to go any smaller in order to maintain good airflow.

The probe is already fitted into a thermowell with a 1/2 bsp male thread. I saw a few examples on the forums showing it fitted into a Tee fitting and just copied it. Saves drilling (not that simple with the double skin on the boilers).

All the fittings are 1/2" bsp in 304 stainless steel and I used quick disconnects on one of the pumps and barbs on the other. Barbs are much cheaper however if your just testing something.

Hope this helps! I'll try and post some links to the kit when I have a mo

EDIT Here you go....

1/2" fittings galore in 304 stainless
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-S...08323?&txnId=1675408196002&varId=420421109450

Ball valve (2 piece)
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/1PC-1-2-quo...Handle-New-/301761817717?&txnId=1285649622020

Make barbs (will fit directly into valves and female-female elbows)
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Male-Thread...-Steel-BSP-/181714525779?&txnId=1537977058008

 

[donchiquon]

A quick update on my test of the PID, dimmer, and voltmeter combo box...

I ran a test with 15L of water before my last brew day a week ago. The box looked fine for a couple of minutes and then the voltmeter started buzzing, before emitting a cloud of stinking electrical smoke.

I had nightmare visions of trying to explain to our French landlady how we had managed to burn down the chalet that her father had built with his own hands :whistle:

Turned everything off. Opened the box. A couple of quality components had fused together on the voltmeter. After checking with my qualified electrical Jedi, I was able to simply disconnect the voltmeter from the circuit, and we were up and running again. The voltmeter display was interesting, but not essential. In fact unless the PID is running at 100%, the meter displays a whole range of voltages that flash on and off.

I turned the dimmer knob to 1/4 power and started everything up again. I set the PID to autotune and within an hour it was happily maintaining temperature within about .3 of a degree.

The next day I doughed in and set the pump running, being careful to use the ball valve to restrict flow at first and avoid a vacuum. Within 5 mins the flow had dropped right down to zero. I removed the temperature proble and "rodded" the boiler outlet. The stainless steel scrubbie I was testing as a makeshift filter had blocked....

Out came the sleeping bag. Off went the PID. When the mash had finished I had another poke around in the boiler outlet and managed to get the flow back enough to do a fly sparge, pumping the wort out of the boiler slowly.

Luckily it wasn't a problem that spoiled the batch - an Amarillo and Citra pale ale for a friends 40th.

I've scheduled in another brewday to test again next week.....

 

[Fil]

teething issues... next time...

 

[BrannBrew]

With the eBay seller stating to me a while ago that he wouldn't get any in stock for about 3 months at least,I found an alternative supplier http://www.elyacatering.co.uk/p/9060701/beer-mash-tun-30l-with-2-hour-timer-.html Wanted the double walled version, it also comes with the timer and hop filter. It however doesn't look like it comes with a false bottom or grain bag. Doesn't really matter about the grain bag as I can use my existing one.

Hopefully this will make my Brewdays more straightforward and easier especially when transfering things which is a pain atm.

Going to probably do a punk IPA 2007 clone to christen it using diy dog recipe for my next batch and bottle 6 to give to my dad as part of his birthday present.

 

[donchiquon]

That's a shame as the false bottom is v useful and worth quite a bit. I think the eBay supplier charges around £30 for them separately.

It also looks like the element is the 2500 watt one which gives a pretty ferocious boil according to some folks. The newer version is 1600w. Slower to heat but a more civilised boil. Pros and cons to both.

It's a great piece of kit though with good flexibility for playing around with various brewing processes - enjoy!

 

[nigelnorris]

He does stock spares, bet he'd sell you a false bottom if you asked. The bag is also worth having because it's tailored, pretty much exact fit with handles to secure over the ones bulit into the boiler.

The Punk IPA is a great way to start, my first two or three brews in my ACE were variations thereof and I've been chuffed with all of them [and all my subsequent brews, it's a great way to get into AG]. Advance warning, the amount of hops used will for sure clag up the filter. Unless you bag them up or modify the boiler before you start you' ll end up hand baling most of the wort into your mash tun. Read through this thread and you'll find two or three systems for getting round the problem. Me I've abandoned the bazooka altogether and run the wort through a muslin bag at the end of the hose into the mash tun. Even with no filter though I've ended up poking about to get really hop heavy worts through.