40 litre Buffalo or cheaper 35 litre boiler?
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Oops - not sure why part of the message lot lopped off. Full post below. Sorry!
Hello.
I've just got a new shiny 37.5 litre thermopot with ball valve and false bottom to use as my mash tun, but now I want to get a (shiny!) boiler.
I was about to order a Buffalo 40 litre tea urn style water boiler at
Oops - not sure why part of the message lot lopped off. Full post below. Sorry!
Hello.
I've just got a new shiny 37.5 litre thermopot with ball valve and false bottom to use as my mash tun, but now I want to get a (shiny!) boiler.
I was about to order a Buffalo 40 litre tea urn style water boiler at 159.99GBP, when I came across a much cheaper 35 litre water boiler for 53.99GBP on ebay.
The product is here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/310901361286
Will 35 litres be big enough for all grain brewing 23 litre/5 gallon batches up to a decent strength? Also, does anyone have any experience of these cheaper models?
I'm wondering whether it is a case of you get what you pay for, or whether they do the same job but pay more for a branded one. I had accepted that the boiler would be about 150 GBP, but seeing that one at 53.99 GBP is making it tempting (ebay seller has some negative feedback though). It goes up to 110c like the Buffalo does so might not need any mucking about with the thermostat for a rolling boil.
But im not into false economies so don't want to buy the cheap one if it is a pile of poo!
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Regards
Greg
Hello.
I've just got a new shiny 37.5 litre thermopot with ball valve and false bottom to use as my mash tun, but now I want to get a (shiny!) boiler.
I was about to order a Buffalo 40 litre tea urn style water boiler at 159.99GBP, when I came across a much cheaper 35 litre water boiler for 53.99GBP on ebay.
The product is here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/310901361286
Will 35 litres be big enough for all grain brewing 23 litre/5 gallon batches up to a decent strength? Also, does anyone have any experience of these cheaper models?
I'm wondering whether it is a case of you get what you pay for, or whether they do the same job but pay more for a branded one. I had accepted that the boiler would be about 150 GBP, but seeing that one at 53.99 GBP is making it tempting (ebay seller has some negative feedback though). It goes up to 110c like the Buffalo does so might not need any mucking about with the thermostat for a rolling boil.
But im not into false economies so don't want to buy the cheap one if it is a pile of poo!
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Regards
Greg
Smileyr8
Impressive Member
Have seen these and have just watched [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD8jkMEH0_I"]this[/ame] and would like to go all grain myself once I have brewed all the cheap kits from Wilko's and Tesco's sales, I am still in the planning stages but am thinking of removing the temperature control switch to make things more accurate, am not a electrician but can wire to a diagram if not too complex.
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gjs - as long as you have 4-5cm clear in the boiler when full to accommodate the vigour of the Max boil, you can contain the initial foaming of the boil with a simple trigger spray bottle with water in it to collapse the foam. and at the price difference i would be tempted to take a punt on the 35l boiler, at worst you would have to hold a few litres back and boil off a bit first before topping up and adding the 'start of boil' hops..
Smileyr8 - interesting vid, but afaik varying the power to the element while under pid control isnt a very good idea,
My understanding of a pid controller is that it measures the impact of its heating/cooling capacity on the volume being changed when in learning mode,and then applies the pid algorithm to employ its heating/cooling in the most efficient way to hit target(setpoint) and varying the power will just pull the rug from under the smart pid box's feet as its fancy math is based on the power it can apply..
Smileyr8 - interesting vid, but afaik varying the power to the element while under pid control isnt a very good idea,
My understanding of a pid controller is that it measures the impact of its heating/cooling capacity on the volume being changed when in learning mode,and then applies the pid algorithm to employ its heating/cooling in the most efficient way to hit target(setpoint) and varying the power will just pull the rug from under the smart pid box's feet as its fancy math is based on the power it can apply..
Smileyr8
Impressive Member
Fil - I was not suggesting varying the power to the element, was more thinking switching it on or off based on temperature being within a pre defined range, this may not be possible or the correct way to go about this, I am not sure thats why I asked the question.
ryancarlwatson
New Member
I have bought this cheap ebay urn and will be trialling it out this weekend. I will let you know my verdict although I have never brewed before so may be a bit naive.
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Sorry Smileyr8 i was addressing the vid and the setup employed not your question..
And yes manual checking of a thermometer reading is how many brewers check the strike temp, and if u overheat a bit, stir in a litre or 2 of cold water or just leave it a while
my simple water treatment used to involve a 15-20 min boil of the hlt and then wait for it to cool down to strike temp (made for a long day tho..)
Smileyr8
Impressive Member
Let us know how you get on
Sorry Smileyr8 i was addressing the vid and the setup employed not your question..
And yes manual checking of a thermometer reading is how many brewers check the strike temp, and if u overheat a bit, stir in a litre or 2 of cold water or just leave it a while
(made for a long day tho..)
Basically my aim would be to automate the whole process as much as possible (you know how it is you get asked to do something by the other half and forget about what is at hand) for as little outlay as is sensible to get the results (I am guessing the pump and shower mechanism help with conversion rates), I guess this is going to be a ball I need to kick about a great deal more to get to the answers I need. At the moment I am thinking 20ltr batches & lengthen to the desired OG's.
DethApostle
Regular.
I have two 40l Buffalo's in my setup and i'd say you definitly need the extra space over a 35l boiler.
For a 23l brew length you'll have around 32l in the boiler to start with...
Look on ebay for nisbets clearance, they often have buffalos on there for c. £70 a go. (that's where mine came from)
Finally, you'll probably need to replace the thermal cutout, and remove the thermal fuse, from the buffalo you use as a copper. After 20 or so brews mine (and a couple of others i've seen on the forums) started overheating a cutting out mid-boil. It's not to taxing a task (and i have extremely limited electrical knowledge!)
DA
For a 23l brew length you'll have around 32l in the boiler to start with...
Look on ebay for nisbets clearance, they often have buffalos on there for c. £70 a go. (that's where mine came from)
Finally, you'll probably need to replace the thermal cutout, and remove the thermal fuse, from the buffalo you use as a copper. After 20 or so brews mine (and a couple of others i've seen on the forums) started overheating a cutting out mid-boil. It's not to taxing a task (and i have extremely limited electrical knowledge!)
DA
ryancarlwatson
New Member
I have started my mash in the 50 quid ebay urn. Just leaving for a couple of hours on 65 degrees. Thermostat seems to be working well for me for this bit at least.
ryancarlwatson
New Member
Nearly 3 hours for the mash to start going sugary. Glad I didnt take it out too early. Need to give the grain a good stir inside the bag and lift bag up and down a lot to get sugars out
ryancarlwatson
New Member
Do not put the hops in loose....use the bag or it is carnage! !
ryancarlwatson
New Member
Fermented for 7 days ish. Gravity at start was 1038 and into the keg at 1012 with 75g of sugar dissolved in boiling water added as well. This stout is gonna be a bit weaker than I was hoping but from the mouthful I got siphoning it tastes good.
ryancarlwatson
New Member
This urn works fine. The rolling boil cuts in and out because of boil over protection but hasn't seemed to do any harm.
Fore
Landlord.
In my recent search for boiler, the first thing that went missing when I looked cheaper than Buffalo was the concealed element. I'm guessing this boiler you highlight has an exposed element. Not a deal breaker I guess, just that you get what you pay for.
Smileyr8
Impressive Member
So you do your mash and boil in the same boiler, is this the same as everyone else? The bag looks full and close to the top how would this cope with bigger higher strength brews? Do you think a pump and shower mechanism would help with conversion rates? You say it holds temperature well, I am guessing you have done a few brews now does this still hold true?
ryancarlwatson
New Member
The element is conceled with a false bottom. So no worries there.
Yes i mash and boil in the same boiler. I have recently started putting my mash bag around the rim of the top of the urn. Not only does this allow more water but allows you to agitate the grain.
I have got well over 40 pints with this method but i do struggle to get the gravity so i think a pump and shower mechanism would help with this.
Also it may be worth noting that with more fluid the rolling boil periods become shorter and eventually never happen. My second batch has just been dumped because it went bad in the keg. Perhaps this was a factor.
Yes i mash and boil in the same boiler. I have recently started putting my mash bag around the rim of the top of the urn. Not only does this allow more water but allows you to agitate the grain.
I have got well over 40 pints with this method but i do struggle to get the gravity so i think a pump and shower mechanism would help with this.
Also it may be worth noting that with more fluid the rolling boil periods become shorter and eventually never happen. My second batch has just been dumped because it went bad in the keg. Perhaps this was a factor.
ryancarlwatson
New Member
To illustrate my new bag method i descibed previously
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