14 hours since yeast was pitched - no apparent reaction

[biggtime]

Morning all!
Attempted my first full mash brew yesterday, and almost everything seemed to work out - ended up at roughly the right OG, and with almost the expected volume (21.5 litres instead of 23, but close). The only thing is that, as yet, no apparent reaction from the yeast at all, after 14 hours. I've only ever made kit beers before, using the dried yeast that came with them. This time I used a vial of White Labs Burton yeast on the basis that this was 'better'. It said there was enough in there for a 5-gallon batch without a starter, but was I foolish to accept what it said on the tin? Or do these 'better quality' liquid yeasts actually take longer to start acting than the dried ones? Pitched at about 25 degrees, and has now dropped to 22, but nothing of note on the surface of the beer yet. I plan to rouse the yeast late afternoon today.

 

[Dunfie]

Don't panic - it can take 24/36 hrs for the yeast to work through the oxygen supplies before you start to see the vigorous activity. I'm sure that by this evening you will see a decent head on the beer.

 

[godfrey]

if the yeast was exposed to high temperature before you pitched it they could all be dead

in any case i would wait longer, even if a few yeast survived they will be multiplying

I have read of cases taking 2 or 3 days before seeing signs of activity

if you still have no head in 3 days, then maybe consider adding some more yeast.

don't worry, I am sure it will be fine :thumb:

 

[orlando]

Did you have the yeast temperature at the same temperature as the wort (a little high by the way)? Did you aerate the wort before pitching? Can you remember when the yeast was made and how was it stored, all these factors can have a big impact on the yeasts performance? It is still early days though, as has been pointed out the yeast is in the lag phase at the moment replicating by using up the oxygen in the wort, if you oxygenated well and the yeast was pitched at the right temp then you will have little to worry about.

 

[biggtime]

if the yeast was exposed to high temperature before you pitched it they could all be dead

in any case i would wait longer, even if a few yeast survived they will be multiplying

I have read of cases taking 2 or 3 days before seeing signs of activity

if you still have no head in 3 days, then maybe consider adding some more yeast.

don't worry, I am sure it will be fine :thumb:

Hopefully no problems like that Godfrey - I stored the yeast in the fridge, took it out 3 hours before pitching as per instructions, and pitched at 25 degrees C. Let's hope it is a slow burner.

 

[biggtime]

Did you have the yeast temperature at the same temperature as the wort (a little high by the way)? Did you aerate the wort before pitching? Can you remember when the yeast was made and how was it stored, all these factors can have a big impact on the yeasts performance? It is still early days though, as has been pointed out the yeast is in the lag phase at the moment replicating by using up the oxygen in the wort, if you oxygenated well and the yeast was pitched at the right temp then you will have little to worry about.

Yes, wort was a touch high, but thermometer in wort said it was 24 degrees, whilst the stick-on one on the FV said it was 26 degrees still. Room was quite warm so getting it much cooler would have been difficult, unfortunately. Yeast had been in same room for 3 hours, having previously been stored in fridge, and with best before in November 2013. I did aerate the wort too, so hoping this is just lag time, and its simply less aggressive than dried yeast I'd used before.

 

[biggtime]

By the way, what approach to yeast do others take? I was intrigued to find that my local (and award-winning) micro just used dried yeast from Fermentis. From all I'd read, I thought that was cheating!

 

[orlando]

Did you have the yeast temperature at the same temperature as the wort (a little high by the way)? Did you aerate the wort before pitching? Can you remember when the yeast was made and how was it stored, all these factors can have a big impact on the yeasts performance? It is still early days though, as has been pointed out the yeast is in the lag phase at the moment replicating by using up the oxygen in the wort, if you oxygenated well and the yeast was pitched at the right temp then you will have little to worry about.

Yes, wort was a touch high, but thermometer in wort said it was 24 degrees, whilst the stick-on one on the FV said it was 26 degrees still. Room was quite warm so getting it much cooler would have been difficult, unfortunately. Yeast had been in same room for 3 hours, having previously been stored in fridge, and with best before in November 2013. I did aerate the wort too, so hoping this is just lag time, and its simply less aggressive than dried yeast I'd used before.

You've done all that right things :clap: As long as the yeast and wort were within 5c of each other you are on the right side within 2 should be your target in future. Yeast are really sensitive to temperature, particularly sharp differences. Dried yeast is used a lot by micros because yeast handling is quite a "technical" issue for a small brewery with so much else going on and dried is so much easier to handle. I'm currently staying in a brew pub and they just top crop their yeast and repitch each time using the same yeast across all their beers. I haven't asked the question but they may do some acid washing from time to time but I don't know. Overtime they probably now have a yeast that is their very own strain due to the genetic drift of many generations from when it started, one of the reasons it can be hard to clone a beer if you don't use its yeast.

 

[jonnymorris]

It's best practice to make a starter with liquid yeast. White Labs vials have 100billion cells when new but these die off over time. Your yeast was getting on for 2 years old so, even it was stored at the right temp since new you'd only have a fairly small percentage of the original 100billion cells left viable.

In short, you under-pitched but give it time and it should take off.

 

[Algernon]

There is a nice explanation of yeat pitching, oxygen, starters etc for dried and liqiud yeasts in this thread here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=41968&start=20

Just scroll down through the arguments about what aeration does until you get to the post by UnclePumble. That's the useful bit :thumb:

 

[biggtime]

It's best practice to make a starter with liquid yeast. White Labs vials have 100billion cells when new but these die off over time. Your yeast was getting on for 2 years old so, even it was stored at the right temp since new you'd only have a fairly small percentage of the original 100billion cells left viable.

In short, you under-pitched but give it time and it should take off.

Really? I bought it in late July, and it alleges on the vial that the 'best before' date is only 4-months after the bottling date of the yeast. Are they having me on?

 

[biggtime]

There is a nice explanation of yeat pitching, oxygen, starters etc for dried and liqiud yeasts in this thread here: http://thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic ... 8&start=20

Just scroll down through the arguments about what aeration does until you get to the post by UnclePumble. That's the useful bit :thumb:

Thanks Algernon. Yeast (and water treatment) are the two things that still seem really quite mysterious to me!

 

[jonnymorris]

Really? I bought it in late July, and it alleges on the vial that the 'best before' date is only 4-months after the bottling date of the yeast.

I wouldn't go against what the vial says though I was under the impression there was a 2 year use by date with WL yeast.

Either way, the correct pitching rate of, for example, 20L of 1048 wort is 180billion cells so one vial is still going to be under pitching (without a starter) even when new.

Edit: It would seem I was mistaken about the 2-year date. That is relevant to most dry yeast but not apprently to WL liquid yeast.

 

[biggtime]

Really? I bought it in late July, and it alleges on the vial that the 'best before' date is only 4-months after the bottling date of the yeast.

I wouldn't go against what the vial says though I was under the impression there was a 2 year use by date with WL yeast.

Either way, the correct pitching rate of, for example, 20L of 1048 wort is 180billion cells so one vial is still going to be under pitching (without a starter) even when new.

Edit: It would seem I was mistaken about the 2-year date. That is relevant to most dry yeast but not apprently to WL liquid yeast.

Thanks again Jonny. Useful to know. I just blindly followed the guidance, which said it would be sufficient for a 5 gallon batch. But I'd seen hints elsewhere that this might not, in fact, be the case.

 

[biggtime]

And the good news is, that it all seems to be fermenting away happily now, so all my worries were for nought. I roused anyway, because that seems to be good practice with a liquid yeast. Thanks again to everyone on the forum for their help. I have to say, this forum is an excellent place to get good advice. Cheers!