0 min hops

[nobbyhigo]

Hi all I was just wondering about 0 min hops and what difference the way wart is cooled and how long they are in the brew .
I do all grain biab with a wart cooler takes 20 mins to cool and all my hops go in bags
Seen as it is a science brewing what is the standard for hops at flame out ?

Cheers for any answers was just bugging me while sat waiting for my hbc hobble wobble to cool

 

[Leon103]

You can either chuck them in there when you turn the flame/power off and leave until your transfer or cool until 80c and put them in there for 30 mins before cooling again and transferring to fv.

 

[HebridesRob]

Hi all I was just wondering about 0 min hops and what difference the way wart is cooled and how long they are in the brew .
I do all grain biab with a wart cooler takes 20 mins to cool and all my hops go in bags
Seen as it is a science brewing what is the standard for hops at flame out ?

Cheers for any answers was just bugging me while sat waiting for my hbc hobble wobble to cool

Do it a few times in different ways and don't do it at all. Then see if you can distinguish a difference. I persevere with flame-out hops but I'm really not convinced of the value.

 

[Covrich]

Do it a few times in different ways and don't do it at all. Then see if you can distinguish a difference. I persevere with flame-out hops but I'm really not convinced of the value.

If you turn the gas off dump the hops in and chill straight to pitching temp then you may not get alot.

If you do as Leon says and steep in the hot wort below 80 for 20-30 mins you get loads

 

[HebridesRob]

If you turn the gas off dump the hops in and chill straight to pitching temp then you may not get alot.

If you do as Leon says and steep in the hot wort below 80 for 20-30 mins you get loads

Done it all ways. My standard method now is cool to 80, bung them in, wait for 30 mins, finish cooling. As I say, I persevere because people tell me it's a making a difference. I'm unconvinced.

 

[Slid]

I came across a multicoloured graph a while ago that showed how it is that the optimum boil times for flavour hops is 22 mins and for aroma hops about 5-7 mins. My take on 15 and 0 min additions is that the heat from the liquor and the time the wort is in contact with the hops above say, 80C, means that in the real world, 15 and 0 are the times to go for.

Whether it is better to dry hop or 0 min hop, I have no clues as these sort of beers are not really my "thing". The "hop-heads" tend to do both, in any event.

 

[nobbyhigo]

So is it worth not bothering with 0 min hops and making a hop tea at 80 degrees and putting in the cooled wort .
After all that would be more scientific than gambling on cooling rates

 

[Covrich]

I came across a multicoloured graph a while ago that showed how it is that the optimum boil times for flavour hops is 22 mins and for aroma hops about 5-7 mins. My take on 15 and 0 min additions is that the heat from the liquor and the time the wort is in contact with the hops above say, 80C, means that in the real world, 15 and 0 are the times to go for.

Whether it is better to dry hop or 0 min hop, I have no clues as these sort of beers are not really my "thing". The "hop-heads" tend to do both, in any event.

I know that graph, I have seen lots of aruments about it people denunking it ect.. some say its great, If I remember 21 mins for flavour and 7 mins for aroma.. Tony then puts up an article recently about the oils and how steeping above 66 degrees ect.. hard to know what is fact and what isn't sometimes.

 

[BeerCat]

So is it worth not bothering with 0 min hops and making a hop tea at 80 degrees and putting in the cooled wort .
After all that would be more scientific than gambling on cooling rates

Thats what @MyQul does i think and seems like a good idea for me. I personally wait until they get to 80c and add mine. Interesting topic.

 

[MyQul]

Thats what @MyQul does i think and seems like a good idea for me. I personally wait until they get to 80c and add mine. Interesting topic.

I used to add all my flavour/aroma addtions just as a hop tea but now I do a micro boil (take 3L out of my no-chilled wort bring to the boil and add late additions then cool and add back to main body of wort). Hop teas as a 0 min addition work great but dont steep the hops more than 20 mins or your get hop astringency. I suspect you probably get a different sort of hop flavour or something whe you steep them in water as opposed to wort but not enough that I could tell

 

[nobbyhigo]

Its got my interest up as i did a citra ipa last january and was lovely so repeated the brew as near as exactly the same as i could (diff grain but same amount hops were the same but had been frozen)in may and was more bitter and a slightly medicinal taste
Looking back all that i can think changed is januarys brew was cooled far quicker compared to the may brew because of the outside temp

 

[IronBlue]

There is one big difference between hopping at flame out and hopping at <80C. Bitterness. If you have a 'modern' recipe with a lot of hops going in the last 10, 5, 0 minutes you will extract a lot more IBUs if you leave it to stand at flame out, as the wort will stay around 98C for ages....

I have had the best results by chilling to 75-80C immediately at flameout, and then steeping the 0-minute hops for about 30 minutes, as many have said. The reasoning as my simple brain understands it:

- beta acids (aroma/flavour) are destroyed after a few minutes when above ~80C so (ironically) you will lose much of the benefit if you steep for 20-30 minutes at near 100C;
- alpha acids (bitterness) are not extracted below ~80C, so can get your recipes right without guessing IBUs for steep additions, just set them to zero
- you won't over-bitter your beer if you didn't allow for the IBUs from an extended 'hot steep' in your recipe...

Whirlpooling hops at a lower temperature is a done by a lot of breweries....

 

[geetee]

- beta acids (aroma/flavour) are destroyed after a few minutes when above ~80C so (ironically) you will lose much of the benefit if you steep for 20-30 minutes at near 100C;

I agree with your statement about alpha acids not isomerising < 100C but I have also read quite a lot about beta acids being sparingly soluble in water and therefore their bitterness only comes into play when the hops are present for a long period of time as in leaving in the FV. It gives a more dank bitterness that is not as desired as the iso alpha acid bitterness and is probably the flavour that dominates with heavily hopped beers after they age.

I am coming to believe that there is no "right way" for dry or late hops , each different method has its pros and cons. It really does need an extended proper scientific study to separate the myths from the reality and produce some real data but in the meantime I will keep trying every which way that works.