samnorfolk
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Anyone use thin bleach to clean before sterilising?
Using Thin Bleach
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geetee
Landlord.
Yes, I often use domestos to sterilise everything; pots, tubes and bottles, but recently bought some starsan (Malt millers own brand)
I have never had an infection and no taste of domestos carries over. Rather than thin bleach I buy the brand name , a box of 12 at Costco is quite cheap. I t's not really thin but isn't perfumed either.
I recently bought the starsan as it is easier on a bottling day to just take some previously cleaned bottles and give a quick squirt with no rinsing. Still use the bleach for bottles with yeast or stains as first cleaning before storage.
I got to the point where I needed to clean my Youngs barrel for the first time. I used Milton Solution overnight as the neck of the barrel is too small to get my hand inside. My LHBS fella said it would be ok :)
It cleaned all ok and I steralised it seperately. The beer is still conditioning so I can't comment on any effects on the taste of the beer.
It cleaned all ok and I steralised it seperately. The beer is still conditioning so I can't comment on any effects on the taste of the beer.
Godsdog
Landlord.
Its fine28/9P at Morrison's for 2 litres just rinse out well afterwards
samnorfolk
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Do you rinse with warm or cold water?
johnnyboy1965
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Ive never liked the idea of using bleach, diluted or not. Its banned from commercial kitchens for a reason.
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Godsdog
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Just cold bog standard tap water,only ever had one infection in over 40 years brewing.
Godsdog
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Hiya johnny would you as a chef like to expand on why bleach is banned from commercial kitchens? Interested to know the reasons behind it
BeerisGOD
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i think as long as the mixtures right theres not a problem. theres a bottle in the Pound shop thats meant for babys but also states it can be used for HB. the level of Sodium hypochlorite in it is very small compared to normal bleach which im sure after rinsing well, then a dose of starsan would be non detrimental.
Personally the only time i use bleach is when ive poured a beer, rinsed, then use a small half teaspoon of bleach with a few mls of warm water to soak as the sediment can be hard to shift. following day, ill pour out the mix (turning the bottle so all sides get a coat) and submerge (til no bubbles) in some suddy water (normally when washing up) and leave to drain.
ive only recently been using some stain remover stuff from Poundland made by a company 'Wizz' Which does a great job sterilising, if this stuff wasnt around i prob would use bleach but use the vinegar trick which alludes me atm
Each to theyre own though
Personally the only time i use bleach is when ive poured a beer, rinsed, then use a small half teaspoon of bleach with a few mls of warm water to soak as the sediment can be hard to shift. following day, ill pour out the mix (turning the bottle so all sides get a coat) and submerge (til no bubbles) in some suddy water (normally when washing up) and leave to drain.
ive only recently been using some stain remover stuff from Poundland made by a company 'Wizz' Which does a great job sterilising, if this stuff wasnt around i prob would use bleach but use the vinegar trick which alludes me atm
Each to theyre own though
johnnyboy1965
Landlord.
The reason behind this is because its too strong. No matter how much you dilute bleach, it only takes one lapse of concentration and the next thing you know, people are dying. there was a recent case of a food shop owner who bought some concentrated vinegar, didnt tell his/her staff that it had to be "watered down", the staff used it "neat". Im not 100% sure but I think someone died and the owner went to prison. What I cant understand is the fact that some Home Brewers think that using bleach is OK (no matter how diluted it is). There are plenty of good sanitizers available, without resorting to bleach
johnnyboy1965
Landlord.
Do not, under any circumstances use bleach. If you choose to ignore my reply, I suggest that you have a bag of "Cat Litter" available.
Cat Litter contains a product called Fullers Earth
If you digest bleach it will burn on the way down into your digestive system.
When you throw up, it will burn again on the way up. Cat litter/Fullers Earth will hold it up in your stomach....Eat the cat litter.....it will probably save your life
geetee
Landlord.
I worked in chemistry labs for years with strong acids, caustic, cyanides and picric acid ( explosive). As long as everything is handled correctly there should be no issues and there never was.
At any point in my sterlising I fill vesells and dilute, fill bottles and rinse and at no point in the process is there any danger of consuming this liquid. Everything is rinsed several times before beer gets anywhere near the bottles or vessels
I understand you are being cautious but I have done this for years and never been close to any contamination or ingestion of bleach. Starsan itself is a strong phosphoric acid and in my eyes(pardon the pun) is just as dangerous as bleach, treat them all with caution and you will be fine.
strange-steve
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Bleach can be used perfectly safely for cleaning and sanitising, but of course it has to be properly diluted and definitely rinsed :whistle:. I can't see how this is a problem.
The CDC actually suggest that in emergencies normal unscented household bleach can be added to drinking water at a rate of 1.5ml/gallon to sanitise it, so I think the tiny amount that may get be left on equipment after a good rinsing is negligible.
The CDC actually suggest that in emergencies normal unscented household bleach can be added to drinking water at a rate of 1.5ml/gallon to sanitise it, so I think the tiny amount that may get be left on equipment after a good rinsing is negligible.
johnnyboy1965
Landlord.
So why do you think that the 1990 Food Safety Act banned the use of bleach in kitchens?
Do you think that they were doing this for fun?
Maybe they are doing it for ****s and giggles?
Your beer, your choice
Do you think that they were doing this for fun?
Maybe they are doing it for ****s and giggles?
Your beer, your choice
strange-steve
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My mistake, I thought this thread was about sanitising homebrew equipment.
Tell me, under what circumstance is a homebrewer using bleach as a sanitiser going to ingest a dangerous amount of bleach?
Of course bleach can be dangerous, but that doesn't mean it can't be used safely.
Tell me, under what circumstance is a homebrewer using bleach as a sanitiser going to ingest a dangerous amount of bleach?
Of course bleach can be dangerous, but that doesn't mean it can't be used safely.
geetee
Landlord.
They have obviously done this for H & S reasons as it is safer and easier to ban it than to put extensive safety protocols in place about storage and labelling of bottles in place. There is more chance of direct contamination from badly marked or unmarked bottles in a food prep area where customers are the other side of the wall. That said it is perfectly possible to put such safety protocols in place and as I have said Labs do this all the time although they are probably working with people who appreciate the risks more than in a high intensity operation like a kitchen.
Just because bleach is banned in kitchens does not make it inherently unsafe, it's uncontrolled use in kitchens by untrained staff may be an accident waiting to happen but in a domestic environment of brewing it is perfectly manageable otherwise people wouldn't use it for mopping floors and walls and other such mundane everyday tasks.
johnnyboy1965
Landlord.
No, and Ill say again, NO, do not use bleach to clean your equipment
johnnyboy1965
Landlord.
And you u7se bleach to mpo your nkitrchen floor/
geetee
Landlord.
Not neat but diluted properly yes in a bucket! It's also in lots of proprietary kitchen multisurface cleaners for killing germs effectively.Look at the spray bottles and they contain bleach for cleaning in household kitchens, properly diluted of course!
When I mix 8 ml of bleach into 5 litres of water I don't ingest any of the bleach.
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