BIAB vs Conventional AG Method

OK, firstly I apologise if this has been 'done to death' over the years, but if I do a search it just brings up too many results to rummage through. I've Googled results as well and can't seem to get a concurrent agreement on it.

So, good people of this forum, what are your thoughts on it?

Is it just a matter of batch size? Ie: doing a 10+ gallon BIAB you'd risking popping a bollock lifting that bag out!

Is it a psychological thing that brewing the conventional way, you are "doing it the right way"?

It BIAB less efficient than the conventional method?

Forumites views and opinions most welcome...

I almost popped one lifting a mash tun with 5kg of soggy grains.

As someone who has done both my consensus is that there's very little between the two, provided both are done well.

A few Aussie BIAB brewers won home brew awards not so long ago and the beer I made in a bag was only marginally less tasty than the ones I now make using a 3 tier system (though I think that other factors are now at play such as confidence, choice of yeast/hops/grain.) I also started BIAB two years ago as a way of getting my feet wet.

I'm trying to get a mate into brewing but rather than starting with kits I'm planning on getting him a bag for a 20l pot he already owns (plus some grain-Clibit lives on!)

Just my tuppence's worth

5kg of wet grain is very heavy. But nothing for my home made pulley system

For an averagely fit (not superman) home brewer lifting 5kg grain bag up and out of the boiler and into a spare FV or onto a large sieve to drain isn't so bad.

For larger batches then a pulley system or moving to seperate vessels makes good sense.

Good post by Joey above.

I've not done seperate vessel all grain as very happy with the beer from BIAB in my Peco boiler.

You are essentially doing the same thing, different equipment will enable different things such as more precise mashing temps and steps ect..

A lot of people here have 30l boilers so whilst they mash in the boiler in a bag they still sparge seperately and top up the boiler so its a sort of hybrid BIAB and sparge if I am being pedantic, although more like a BIAB..

I do full BIAB which means I go straight in with 30-34L water in the pot and mash in that and mashout no seperate sparge.

In the end you're essentially doing the same thing, the diversity in AG can be pretty large but you soak the grains and extract the sugars out in your mash/sparge method and then boil with the hops..

Covrich said:

I do full BIAB which means I go straight in with 30-34L water in the pot and mash in that and mashout no seperate sparge.

Click to expand...

Am I missing something here, but if you don't sparge do you end up with a very strong wort? Or are you effectively having your mash and sparge water in the pot at the same time?

Notlaw said:

Am I missing something here, but if you don't sparge do you end up with a very strong wort? Or are you effectively having your mash and sparge water in the pot at the same time?

Click to expand...

"True" BIAB you have all your mash and sparge water in the pot at the same time, you need a large pot for it though.. You do not do a seperate sparge, you mash as normal in the full volume of water.. then what you can do is raise the temp after your mash to 75ºc and then rest for 10 mins called a mashout stir and then remove your grain bag.. and continue raising to the boil. Some people do not even bother with the mashout. I do and at present get around 72-75% which is consistent enough for me.

I have a 50L pot and I would say with all the full volume water 33L and 5KG of grain (which nearly fills my 15L pot) the pot is 80-90% full during the mash.

Just one way of doing it.

Notlaw said:

Am I missing something here, but if you don't sparge do you end up with a very strong wort? Or are you effectively having your mash and sparge water in the pot at the same time?

Click to expand...

from what ive read.. and understand it, you have to sparge because if your boiler is only 30litres then theres not enough water to remove the sugars from the grain.. the sugar levels in the water has maxed out.. so to do a no sparge full biab you need a bigger pot and more water to extract all the sugars

thats how i understand it anyway, i may be wrong

Alcoholx said:

from what ive read.. and understand it, you have to sparge because if your boiler is only 30litres then theres not enough water to remove the sugars from the grain.. the sugar levels in the water has maxed out.. so to do a no sparge full biab you need a bigger pot and more water to extract all the sugars

thats how i understand it anyway, i may be wrong

Click to expand...

Yeah simply put if you want to do a 23l brew, in a 30l boiler there isn't enough space for all your water 32l and say 5kg of grain, so you split it up.. still works the same just different way of doing it..

Or like me, Don't attempt 23L brews in your 33L pot. It's seldom that I would want 40pints of the same beer. I only do that to fill up a pb and it takes me eternity to drain them. Anyone near new Malden is welcome to stop by and help.

Otherwise I stick to 10-15L batches.

I am going to mash a 4.2kg grain bill in 26L which will be tight but then I'm doing two separate boils.

I've never calculated my efficiency but my hybrid biab method usually gets me close to predicted gravity and I'm not bothered about being exact. Maybe one day when I need new thrills I'll start worrying about that sort of thing.

Agree that the end result can be equally good but as someone who has recently switched to using a mash tun I would say the following

Generally found it less messy and easier (no lifting grain bag, dripping wort etc)

Hasn't made much difference to efficiency (in fact some have been lower with mash tun, still tweaking technique though)

Wort makes it to FV with less trub (believe this is a result of proper lautering process)

Bit easier to maintain mash temp in the tun (although no option to switch heat back on if it does drop)

Even more kit to clutter up the shed!

I use a 50L pot for 23L BIAB batches but do 'sparge' ('rinse' would probably be a better description) with 4-5L of water heated to mashing temp or a bit higher. I've not tried the true BIAB method (without sparge), but doubt I get a much better efficiency for bothering with the sparge.
I've given up on the mashout as it adds a significant amount of time to the brewday and I'm not sure exactly what I gain from it - maybe someone can explain?
I average 67-70% efficiency so probably spend a few more pence on grains than a 3 tier brewer, but don't have space for any more kit, or the inclination to change as yet.
You'll make good beer either way I'm sure.

I went straight in to AG. Skipped kits and BIAB, so can't comment on those as a comparison. I have a three-tier system, and it is a matter of opening taps really. Once the mash is complete the HLT tap is opened, the mash tun tap is opened, the boiler tap is closed. Sparge complete, HLT and mash tun taps closed. Boil complete, close fv tap (crucial that one, the sort of mistake you only make once!). Open boiler tap. By the time the boil is complete the spent grains have been disposed of and everything bar the boiler has been cleaned ready for the next brew. It really is as simple as that.

Covrich said:

I have a 50L pot and I would say with all the full volume water 33L and 5KG of grain (which nearly fills my 15L pot) the pot is 80-90% full during the mash.

Click to expand...

38kg now that's heavy lifting. Regularly carry 20 litre up the stairs. :-( more at work 😖

I can manage a 23L batch using my version of BIAB, which includes a dunk sparge, in the kitchen. I haven't room for a 3 tier system so it works for me. My efficiency averages about 77%. As to lifting 5kg of wet grain, it's heavy but I can manage it and rest it on a cake cooling rack whilst it's draining, so if a girl like me can do it I'm sure most can.:mrgreen:
If I had room I would love a 3 tier system so I suppose it just depends on your personal circumstances. I bet there's not much, if any, difference to the quality of the resulting beer.

I've done kits and BIAB and now AG. I still sometimes do BIAB on a small scale when I just have the itch to brew and the missus has enough wine.

I don't see much difference other than as manse said, it's just opening and closing taps. Just a more controlled engineered process.

I can still see me doing both even with an AG setup.

I do BIAB I mash as close to full volume as possible (for 30 litre boiler), 18-20 litres mash for 60 mins raise boiler temp to 80 degs, once at 80 degs I lift the bag on my pulley system let it run off then squeeze the bag using 2 chopping boards, I then boil the wort for 60 mins, I generally liquor back (with water) once in the FV to get to 22 litres, this usually gives me 83-87% efficiency (using Brewtarget), this usually nets me 19 litres for my Cornies.

I have sparged this is generally a lot more messy & only gets me 75% efficiency.

I've done 16 AG brews since June if my memory is correct. Maybe three small ones on teh stove top with a bag, and after that I got my 25l boiler. Mostly I have used a grain bag and sparged in a bucket after the initial mash in my boiler. Yes - as others have said there is some dripping of wort and sticky mess - that's the main reason I do it in a shed where I can walk in with a hose and sluice it out after. Wife not so keen on that approach in the kitchen or on the sticky footprints elsewhere in the house.

The last two brews I experimented and got a higher efficiency. I didn't use the bag and mashed in my boiler 'bare back'. Heated 15l to the strike temperature I had calculated for my desired start temperature. Stirred in 6.150kg of grain. Checked temp and when satisfied lid on and sleeping bag over the top and boiler all snug and cosy.

At the end of the hour, ran hot wort out into a waiting FV and poured in 10l at about 78C. Stirred and waited ten minutes then ran it off into the same FV.

Repeated again with 8 litres and ran it off again into the FV.

AT THE END OF SPARGING I squirt a couple of litres of cold water into the boiler, shake it a bit, take the boiler to the compost bin - a REALLY easy lift and dump it. Swill out with some water a couple of times and it is clean as a whistle.

I now had about 28 litres of wort. Most boiled in 25l boiler and the balance on the stove top - this used to replace evaporated wort from main boiler.

I got 78% efficiency with this method and had 1066 OG from 6.150kg grain with 23 litres in FV.

This was far less messy for me than using the bag and no pulling hot bag out of the bin. If I had a bigger 30 litre pot I wouldn't have any problems like topping up, but I just live happily enough with my 25 litre pot because I have a good work around on the stove top with the old 12 litre pot.

Just my ten penny worth.

dan125 said:

I've given up on the mashout as it adds a significant amount of time to the brewday and I'm not sure exactly what I gain from it - maybe someone can explain?

Click to expand...

Perhaps I do it wrong but it adds 10 mins on my brew day..

Since I am full volume.. after my mash time is finished I just relight the burner..(grains and bag still in pot) on its way to teh boil I stop at around 75 and rest for 10 mins.. stir and remove grain bag squeeze and drain ect whilst coming to the boil.. Assuming I am doing it correct it adds very little time in fact I would say it actually is quicker than sparging seperatly then topping up.