Kit Yeast What Do You Do

terrym · Nov 2, 2015

The vast majority of kits come with a packet of dried yeast, and the normal instruction is to sprinkle the yeast onto the surface of the brew provided the temperature is right. However I'm sure I've read somewhere that sprinkling dried yeast direct onto the brew surface can kill a proportion of the yeast cells, although I have no idea what that proportion is.
Since we all want our brews to get off to a good start, and arguably the quantity of yeast in many kits is not really enough unless you brew really short, the question is, what do you do, and why
- sprinkle kit yeast as directed, whether foam, from aerating your brew, on top or not
- wait until the foam has subsided then sprinkle onto liquid
- sprinkle then mix in
- make up a starter to hydrate and activate the yeast, say 200ml cooled boiled water, wait 20 minutes, add fermentable to make up to roughly 1.020 gravity, leave for 30 mins or until yeast visibly fermenting (like I do sometimes)
- something else
Any hard evidence that one method is better than another?

HisDudeness · Nov 2, 2015

I think I have heard that making a starter is not the best method for dried yeast but I may be wrong, personally I have had much shorter lag times with dried yeast by simply rehydrating the yeast in a jar of tepid water prior to pitching.

Cwrw666 · Nov 2, 2015

I usually just sprinkle dried yeast on and leave it. They always say not to stir it in so maybe that would affect the yeast badly. Muntons yeast, however, seems to come in pathetically small packets but, certainly in the last Muntons kit I did, they tell you to rehydrate the yeast first. I'm guessing they're assuming you can get away with less yeast when you rehydrate so save themselves a few pennies by providing less to start with. Judging by the problems people have with Muntons kits stalling at 1020 I'd say they're overoptimistic in how many yeast cells you save by rehydrating.

thegoatboy · Nov 2, 2015

I completed a festival kit yesterday.

Didn't really have time to rehydrate the yeast (never done this actually) just sprinkled it on.

Instructions said give it a stir, so I did.

Gaspode · Nov 2, 2015

I have never made a yeast starter but have both sprinkled dried yeast directly into the FV and re-hydrated yeast and added that.

I haven't got loads of brews under my belt yet but haven't really seen much difference in either the amount of fermentation or the finished product.

My head tells me that re-hydrating would be better so that fermentation starts sooner and therefore reduces the risk of anything nasty happening so based on absolutely no scientific evidence this is what I usually do. Adding the yeast to a small amount of cooled boiled water with a touch of yeast nutrient when I start brewing and in the time it takes to get everything done and the temp right for pitching chuck it in then, usually 45 minutes to and hour later.

The St Peters kits and Wilko kits I have done both give instructions to stir after pitching

clibit · Nov 2, 2015

I follow the manufacturer s instructions with dried yeast. If they recommend sprinkling, I aerate the wort after sprinkling by beating it with a whisk, to get the yeast well distributed. I mostly rehydrate, but still do the whisk think.

terrym · Nov 4, 2015

Thanks folks.
Looks like there is no 'best practice' then.
I like Clibit's idea of a whisk :thumb:. I think I'll try that over the next two brews with and without a rehydration to see what if any difference there is.
What prompted me to post was first a Youngs APA yeast which was completely dead although well within date which I had made up as a starter, and then a Wherry I started on Sunday with a GV12 also well within date, dry sprinkled on top. At one time I wondered if that too was a goner but then it suddenly burst into life after 24 hours and at one stage not long after was bubbling through the airlock at about 160bpm.

MyQul · Nov 4, 2015

terrym said:
Thanks folks.
Looks like there is no 'best practice' then.
I like Clibit's idea of a whisk :thumb:. I think I'll try that over the next two brews with and without a rehydration to see what if any difference there is.
What prompted me to post was first a Youngs APA yeast which was completely dead although well within date which I had made up as a starter, and then a Wherry I started on Sunday with a GV12 also well within date, dry sprinkled on top. At one time I wondered if that too was a goner but then it suddenly burst into life after 24 hours and at one stage not long after was bubbling through the airlock at about 160bpm.

Actually, there is a best practice, re-hydration (which some people get mixed up with making a starter, term wise). Just sprinking on top can kill up to 50% of the yeast as when you do this 'any' thing' can pass through the cell wall of the yeast (meaning the wort) and kill the cells as they're quite 'porous' (cant remeber the exact scientific term). When yeast is dried it goes through a process which enables it to store nutrients. When you rehydrate it, it starts to use these nutrients and prepare it for the wort - This is the basic process as far as I remember it. I can look in my yeast book to get you a more scientific explanation later if you want.

Having said all that I'm lazy and just spinkle a bit more yeast to account for the mortality

clibit · Nov 4, 2015

To re-hydrate or not to re-hydrate? It depends, you need to do it right...

http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2010/06/the-importance-of-being-hydrated/

It requires a temperature between 35 and 40C, and hard water, which I don't have.

wheazy_joe · Nov 4, 2015

For every brew so far, bar one, I have simply sprinkled the dried yeast on top of the foamy wort, and they've all got to pretty much target SG eventually.

The one time I rehydrated the yeast I seem to recall it started going pretty quickly after pitching (although this does usually happen with the dry yeast anyway) and got to target SG as well.

So for me there doesn't seem to be much difference between pitching dry & rehydrating but accept there may be a scientific argument that disproves this.

clibit · Nov 4, 2015

wheazy_joe said:
For every brew so far, bar one, I have simply sprinkled the dried yeast on top of the foamy wort, and they've all got to pretty much target SG eventually.

The one time I rehydrated the yeast I seem to recall it started going pretty quickly after pitching (although this does usually happen with the dry yeast anyway) and got to target SG as well.

So for me there doesn't seem to be much difference between pitching dry & rehydrating but accept there may be a scientific argument that disproves this.

Getting to target FG isn't the only aim. Under-pitching can stress yeast and affect the flavour of the beer, regardless of the gravity it finishes at. I tend to think that the best approach is to try things and see what works, with issues like this, where there are different opinions and advice varies. See what works. Same with water chemistry - I have tried adding things to my water and not adding anything, and have settled pretty much on minimal treatment, because it works for me. Sulfates in pale beers, nothing in dark beers, with my very soft tap water. And this is what (at least) two of my local breweries do, so I feel vindicated!

And I have done plenty of batches with dried yeast sprinkled, and plenty re-hydrated, and I have not noticed any distinct pattern of behaviour difference or result difference in results between the two methods.

MyQul · Nov 4, 2015

I agree with clibit here, try different things and see what works. As memtioned I whenever I use dried yeast I basically overpitch by sprinkling a whole 11g pack into a wort with fairly low gravity. I then harvest the trub rinse the yeast out of it and then 'overbuild' starter for subsequent brews. I've found this regime works well for me

terrym · Nov 4, 2015

MyQul said:
I then harvest the trub rinse the yeast out of it and then 'overbuild' starter for subsequent brews.

MyQul
So how do you do this, making sure you don't introduce any nasties for later? And how do you store the washed yeast and for how long?
I would like to have a go with the GV12 now chomping away at my Wherry when it's finished. I normally get about 0.5 litre or so of raw trub after I've siphoned off. I also usually rack off to secondary (to limit carry over to bottles) and dry hop the racked off brew. Which would be best to harvest, initial trub or from the racked off beer?

MyQul · Nov 4, 2015

terrym said:
MyQul
So how do you do this, making sure you don't introduce any nasties for later? And how do you store the washed yeast and for how long?
I would like to have a go with the GV12 now chomping away at my Wherry when it's finished. I normally get about 0.5 litre or so of raw trub after I've siphoned off. I also usually rack off to secondary (to limit carry over to bottles) and dry hop the racked off brew. Which would be best to harvest, initial trub or from the racked off beer?

I rinse the yeast out of the trub using spent starter wort. Basically, I put some trub in a starter then let it ferment out then use the spent starter wort to rinse the yeast out of the trub and keep the yeast under the spent starter wort (essentially unhopped beer). I'll detail the exact method later if you like?

Once rinsed out I then will put the yeast into a two Ltre starter split it in two once fermented out put half in a 1Ltr starter 12 hrs before I need to pitch into a brew and put the other half into another 2L of starter two split again and do the above. I just keep doing this until I change yeast strains then start again by just overpitching a packet of dry yeast. As I'm makig a starter each time I'm going to use it, I keep the rinsed yeast in the fridge as long as I need to

I would use the initial trub btw

terrym · Nov 4, 2015

MyQul said:
I rinse the yeast out of the trub using spent starter wort. Basically, I put some trub in a starter then let it ferment out then use the spent starter wort to rinse the yeast out of the trub and keep the yeast under the spent starter wort (essentially unhopped beer). I'll detail the exact method later if you like?

Ta. Mostly understood :thumb:.
What is the starter made from?
Approx how much starter to trub?
I assume that once the first trub/starter has finished fermenting, but before it starts to clear, you decant the spent wort liquid into the next 2 litre batch and leave any settled solids at the bottom. Is that right?

MyQul · Nov 4, 2015

terrym said:
Ta. Mostly understood :thumb:.
What is the starter made from?
Approx how much starter to trub?
I assume that once the first trub/starter has finished fermenting, but before it starts to clear, you decant the spent wort liquid into the next 2 litre batch and leave any settled solids at the bottom. Is that right?

*Harvest some trub
*Make a 2L starter (200g DME/2L water - boiled for 15mins to sterilize then cooled)
*Put about 400ml of trub and the starter wort in a 5L water bottle and ferment out over a couple of days, shaking the water bottle at least 4 times per day.
*Once the starter has fermented out get a couple of 2L water bottles
*Shake the starter to suspend everything in the spent wort.
*Leave it on the side for 20mins and the heavier trub will settle out to the bottom of the water bottle leaving the yeast suspended in the spent wort
*Decant the spent wort/suspended yeast into the 2x2L water bottles.
*Put the 2L water bottles in the fridge to crash out the yeast so you can now measure how much yeast you've got - Job done.

You dont have to then make a starter with the harvested and rinsed yeast, you can pitch it straight into your wort (provided you have enough). As long as it's no more than 2-3 weeks old (4 at a push)

terrym · Nov 4, 2015

MyQul
Brilliant.
Thanks.

MyQul · Nov 4, 2015

terrym said:
MyQul
Brilliant.
Thanks.

My pleasure (invoice is in the post).

JamesG · Nov 4, 2015

Response to Clibit's message. Far be it for me to disagree with a senior member, but my Graham Wheeler book refers to a maximum temperature of 30C for rehydrating yeast . Am I doing it wrong? 5 - 10 degrees difference is a large margin.
I always rehydrate my yeast, and the advantages to me are that it seems to get going quicker and you can tell if the yeast is dud before you hoy it into your wort.
I also whisk my beer before adding yeast, I do worry about how clean a whisk can be though...

wfr42 · Nov 4, 2015

To date the 5 youngs craft kits I have done, I have sprinkled yeast on top of aerated wort. My LHBS offered a learn to brew course, that SWMBO got me for a present. One of their tips that has stuck with, was stirring vigorously for 2 mins before pitching.

With the one can kits I have done (with significantly less yeast) I have rehydrated the yeast in boiled water cooled to about 35-40 degrees and then pitched once the wort and rehydrated yeast have both cooled to about 22-24 degrees.

So far both approaches have worked for me.

Kit Yeast What Do You Do

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