Soapy Off Flavour

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

I made this

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59455

a couple of weeks ago. I've just tasted it out from the FV and it's got a horrible soapy off flavour. I suspect it might be from using (soft) bottled water and not adding any gypsum either that or the hops. I've used both FG and EKG before and although some people can perceive some hops varieties as tasting soapy I didn't the last times I've used them. The only difference this time is, as an experiment I left te late hopping hop debris in the FV for the two weeks fermentation. So that might have been the cause

I'm inclined to chuck it as I can't be bothered with the effort to bottle it. Then if it's still soapy after some conditioning clean all the bottles

What would you guys do?

Dutto · Jan 21, 2016

Apparently four major causes of "soapy" are:

1. Soap in the glass that you are using? (Sounds daft but .... ?)

2. Leaving the brew too long on the trub after fermentation is finished, (Don't think you have had long enough for that.)

3. High alkalinity water. (Possible.)

4. Too many hops so you think "soapy" when others may think "Hoppy."

Take your pick of causes.

I hate binning anything so I would bottle at least some of it and see what it tastes like in a few weeks.

If the flavour had improved I would then burst into tears in memory of the stuff I had thrown down the drain; and if it hadn't I would pat myself on the back for a good decision.

BTW, I don't have a garden to use it as a slug-killer which is another alternative to the drain for many brewers. :thumb:

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

The first thing I did after tasting this was google "soapy off flavours in beer" and came up with similar results to you

1. I tried it straight from the FV so it's not glassware

2. It was only in there for two weeks so I rule out this cause

3. I used bottled water so the alkalinity wasn't high. The water profile might be the culprit though

4. I'm inclided to think it might be something to do with the hops. I'm not much of a hop head and I also left the late hops in the FV for the fermentation period

Covrich · Jan 21, 2016

Bottled water is normally low Alkaline isn't it?? could be water

putting hops in and transferring could the maybe the culprit.. Don't some people who dry hop for too long say they get grassy flavours?? If that was the case perhaps time could fix that.

since you're sampling straight out the FV it cannot be glassware ect..which I know can ruin a beer..

You're only weeks in.. could you leave it for a bit or do you need to free up the FV

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

Covrich said:
You're only weeks in.. could you leave it for a bit or do you need to free up the FV

Why didn't I think of this! I've done this before when I've had too much diacytyl in a beer.

I've got enough FV's but its my cool brewing bag I really need to free up as the FV is sitting in that at the mo and I can't lift 20 odd L of beer because of my bad back. So I think I'll rack it into 2x10L buckets and leave it for a couple more weeks and see how it gets on. Cheers Cov. Dilemma solved even if it doesn't improve. :thumb:

Covrich · Jan 21, 2016

Two ten liter buckets sounds like a good idea, it is off the trub and hop debris and you probably can have a good few extra weeks in there..

If its finished fermentation leaving it at room temp should be okay I would have thought. at that size you might even be able to crash one in the fridge.. Not sure which would be better

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

The more I'm reading, the more convinced it's the hops (and leaving them in the FV). I don't like/make IPA's/APA's but from what I'm reading its quite common for highly hopped beers to have a soapy taste. As mentioned some people percieve hoppyness as soapyness - perhaps I'm one of them

Covrich · Jan 21, 2016

MyQul said:
The more I'm reading, the more convinced it's the hops (and leaving them in the FV). I don't like/make IPA's/APA's but from what I'm reading its quite common for highly hopped beers to have a soapy taste. As mentioned some people percieve hoppyness as soapyness - perhaps I'm one of them

In that case time is probably a good healer, some people dry hop for like 14 days and say it gets too grassy.. not sure if that translates but it might be something that mellows after a couple of months.

cheapbrew · Jan 21, 2016

I've had soapy taste with wine and cider before during fermentation and I thought I would have to throw them, but over time it went and the finished products tasted great, so I too would leave it awhile and see what happens.

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

I read a thread from an obscure brewing forum from 2008. The guy had soapy flavour but it deminished after a couple of weeks so he started drinking the batch and by the time he had finished it the soapy flavour had gone.

So my plan of action is to rack it to 2x10L FV's for a couple of weeks, if the soapy flavour starts to diminsh, I'll bottle it and condition it for 6 weeks or so.

The aroma is a strong honey, with a strong initial floral flavour which turns into a strong soapy flavour. All of these flavours are the flavour profile of EKG appart from the soapy flavour. I think Tony51's method of leaving the hops in the FV actually seems to have worked well (perhaps too well :lol:) as all the flavours have been super enhanced. Unfortunately the soapy flavour has also been super enhanced too. Oddly enough there doesn't seem to be any trace of the First Gold

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

Decided to just go ahead and bottle it - just finished. I've got a sneaky feeling this is actually going turn out ok with some conditioning

TartanSpecial · Jan 21, 2016

Covrich said:
Bottled water is normally low Alkaline isn't it??

I know this a bit of a sideline since major issue solved but....
Most of the bottled water is fairly high alkalinity...eg Sainsburys 240ppm bicarbonate, Highland spring 150ppm bicarb, buxton 248ppm etc... the only one I've come across that is low on alkalinity (and minerals generally) is Waitrose Essential at 39ppm bicarb which I would choose if attempting a Plisner.

Sorry..I'm a bit obsessed with water these days.....missing the laboratory...

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

TartanSpecial said:
I know this a bit of a sideline since major issue solved but....
Most of the bottled water is fairly high alkalinity...eg Sainsburys 240ppm bicarbonate, Highland spring 150ppm bicarb, buxton 248ppm etc... the only one I've come across that is low on alkalinity (and minerals generally) is Waitrose Essential at 39ppm bicarb which I would choose if attempting a Plisner.

Sorry..I'm a bit obsessed with water these days.....missing the laboratory...

mg/L is the same as ppm isn't it? This being so I used Eden Falls from Asda which was 30mg/l

TartanSpecial · Jan 21, 2016

MyQul said:
mg/L is the same as ppm isn't it? This being so I used Eden Falls from Asda which was 30mg/l

Yes. mg/l = ppm

TartanSpecial · Jan 21, 2016

MyQul said:
This being so I used Eden Falls from Asda which was 30mg/l

This would be even better for pilsners...got even less minerals in it that the Waitrose stuff. Will need to see where it comes from. Waitrose stuff is from the Stretton valley

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

TartanSpecial said:
This would be even better for pilsners...got even less minerals in it that the Waitrose stuff. Will need to see where it comes from. Waitrose stuff is from the Stretton valley

No idea. As far as I'm concerned it comes from Asda on the Old Kent Road. :lol:

Hoppyland · Jan 21, 2016

The alkalinity of my water supply - from a hillside burn - tested as 21.7 mg/l (as CaCO3). Currently, I treat it with gypsum plus some CaCl2 & MgCl2 as it's pretty low in minerals.
My first brews, here, though, were without treatment. They were typically lightly malted bitters or IPAs at about 4 - 4.5% ABV with a lot of hops, both late addition and dry. I didn't notice any flavours that I wasn't expecting. Certainly nothing I would think of as "soapy".

TartanSpecial · Jan 21, 2016

Eden Valley Mineral Water Company, Armathwaite, Cumbria CA4 9TU, UK ..between Carlisle and Penrith. Tesco ashbeck spec is similar and also from the Eden valley. For those with hard tap water, the Adsa eden falls, and Tesco ashbeck would probably be good for mixing starsan and avoiding a 'cloudy' reaction.

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

I'm going make a porter on sat. My tap water is 188ppm alkalinity. Normally it's fine for dark beers but I'm going to try out mixing 1/3 Eden Fall to 2/3 tap. This gets it to 143ppm (within brewpaks recommended 100ppm-150pmm for dark beers)

MyQul · Jan 21, 2016

Hoppyland said:
The alkalinity of my water supply - from a hillside burn - tested as 21.7 mg/l (as CaCO3). Currently, I treat it with gypsum plus some CaCl2 & MgCl2 as it's pretty low in minerals.
My first brews, though, were without treatment. They were typically lightly malted bitters or IPAs at about 4 - 4.5% ABV with a lot of hops, both late addition and dry. I didn't notice any flavours that I wasn't expecting. Certainly nothing I would think of as "soapy".

Thanks for that. When I did a bit of research this morning water composition was flagged as one possibility. Tbh I'm pretty sure it's the hops and possibly my individual palatte's take on the hops as I also read that some people perceive hoppy as soapy. Also I may also be confusing floral with soapy. I've never had a very descerning palate and can't pick out individual flavours from beer that well unless it's a dominant flavour, the way some people can.

Soapy Off Flavour

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