Ace electric boilers?

Covrich said:

Just another question..

How do you guys go about getting your volumes correct with a 30l? do you mash in say 20 liters then run a sparge with about 12? and then add to the boiler?

(i know its not a true BIAB as they say but as long as it works)

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I more or less do this - mash has enough water so that when the grains are added they just about fill the thing. Then I sparge (dunk) with about 5 L water and add that which usually tops up to about 23L. Then during the boil I add occasional kettle-fulls of boiling water to keep it topped up. It works and my efficiencies seem to match those for normal AG as my OGs are those given in the recipes I'm using (Greg Hughes book).

By the way - don't boil with the lid on as you'll get a boil-over guaranteed.
Just done a stout in fact and even though I kept the volume down to about 4 gallons for the boil, and without the lid on I still had a boilover after I added the Irish moss. Frothiest beer I've made to date.

Covrich said:

Thanks Ill need to perhaps store mine in the garage when not in use, even in say the conservatory I dont want a 6 and 4 year old playing with it.

I ordered a wort chiller with 4 metre hoses on so when I brew in conservatory I can hang them out the window to the garden hose tap

Of course now I have that and (waiting for the chiller)... I need to grains and hops, might try a Greg Hughes recipe myself.. perhaps a Saison

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Fully on board with this. I don't keep mine in the kitchen. It lives in my walk-in cupboard upstairs on the landing and goes in the kitchen for boiling and during the 24 hour cool down. I don't have a wort chiller.

If I wasn't such a lazy git, I would sort out the garage and use it in there. This would require a fair bit of re-arranging though, including disposal of a boat trailer and re-housing the dog kennel. It isn't a big garage - seems to have been designed for a Model T Ford being a 1930s semi.

Mine turned up yesterday had a little go with it, it certainly is a nice piece of equipment, wife caught me draining out out in the sink and the look on her face (as in WTF is that!!!!) the Mash temp seems a little out but that was only in 6 liters of water so ill try again on a fuller scale to see how acurate I can get it to "hold" the temp at.. I do like that feature if I can get it nailed down.

One thing I thought of and this is probably a ridiculously stupid question but with the element concealed, how are you supposed to clean it?

Covrich said:

One thing I thought of and this is probably a ridiculously stupid question but with the element concealed, how are you supposed to clean it?

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The only parts that need cleaning are those inside the vessel. The plate at the bottom seems to develop a vague film of cooked on protein in the central raised zone under the hop filter. This is probably where the actual element is and probably runs a bit hotter. This just wipes off with one of those green, slightly abrasive kitchen scrubs - I mean those yellow rectangles of sponge with a green scrubbing side. It really just needs sponging off. The boiler cleans up really well. Obviously, you can wipe the outside too. If you have bought a nice shiny object, it's nice to keep it that way. :)

I mash mine in the following way:

- Bring 12 or 15 litres to 75c (CHECK with THERMOMETER)

- Dough in grains and stir to ensure good mixing

- Check temperature IMMEDIATELY and adjust with cold if needed to hit desired mash temperature. If it comes out too hot you don't want it there for long or you may destroy the amylase enzymes - especially beta-amylase which is damaged at over 70C.

I had to cool mine a bit by adding perhaps a couple of pints of cool water to get it to 65C. It had arrived at 69C before I added the cold water. I had a grain bill of about 3.2KG. Obviously the amount of grain affects the drop in temp from strike temperature to mash temperature. More grain than my example would need more water for mashing. I think the typical amount is 2.5 - 3l per kilo of grain.

During the mash the temperature stayed quite stable for most of the hour, dropping from about 65C at the start to about 63C by the end. A larger mash volume would hold its temperature better. The insulation works quite well.

If you were going to use the thermostat for maintaining the mash temperature, I suspect that the overshoot of the thermostat might make it tricky to rely on that to maintain it exactly. Also, if you do BIAB like I am doing just now, you might burn the bag if the element came on. I just didn't need to use it, relying on the insulation and it worked.

After the mash and draining my bag, I dumped the bag in a large bowl, and emptied the first runnings into my 12l stock pot. I then put about 15 litres of cold water into the boiler for a dunk sparge and took it up to 80C. Then I added back the grain bag and steeped it for about 15 minutes, drained the bag again, squeezed it into the bowl and added back the resulting liquid from the bowl.

I then put the heater on again to raise temperature for the boil and emptied my first run off wort back to the boiler from the stockpot and adjusted the water level in the boiler by adding more cold water to take the boil volume up to about 23 litres - maybe a half inch below the full mark.

Even at this level, slightly short of 25 litres, there are some points in the boil where you may get a rise of foam that could boil over. I felt more comfortable keeping it slightly less than full and topping up with a litre or two of boiling kitchen kettle water as needed as the liquor boiled down.

Tony1951 said:

The only parts that need cleaning are those inside the vessel. The plate at the bottom seems to develop a vague film of cooked on protein in the central raised zone under the hop filter. This is probably where the actual element is and probably runs a bit hotter. This just wipes off with one of those green, slightly abrasive kitchen scrubs - I mean those yellow rectangles of sponge with a green scrubbing side. It really just needs sponging off. The boiler cleans up really well. Obviously, you can wipe the outside too. If you have bought a nice shiny object, it's nice to keep it that way. :)

I mash mine in the following way:

- Bring 12 or 15 litres to 75c (CHECK with THERMOMETER)

- Dough in grains and stir to ensure good mixing

- Check temperature IMMEDIATELY and adjust with cold if needed to hit desired mash temperature. If it comes out too hot you don't want it there for long or you may destroy the amylase enzymes - especially beta-amylase which is damaged at over 70C.

I had to cool mine a bit by adding perhaps a couple of pints of cool water to get it to 65C. It had arrived at 69C before I added the cold water. I had a grain bill of about 3.2KG. Obviously the amount of grain affects the drop in temp from strike temperature to mash temperature. More grain than my example would need more water for mashing. I think the typical amount is 2.5 - 3l per kilo of grain.

During the mash the temperature stayed quite stable for most of the hour, dropping from about 65C at the start to about 63C by the end. A larger mash volume would hold its temperature better. The insulation works quite well.

If you were going to use the thermostat for maintaining the mash temperature, I suspect that the overshoot of the thermostat might make it tricky to rely on that to maintain it exactly. Also, if you do BIAB like I am doing just now, you might burn the bag if the element came on. I just didn't need to use it, relying on the insulation and it worked.

After the mash and draining my bag, I dumped the bag in a large bowl, and emptied the first runnings into my 12l stock pot. I then put about 15 litres of cold water into the boiler for a dunk sparge and took it up to 80C. Then I added back the grain bag and steeped it for about 15 minutes, drained the bag again, squeezed it into the bowl and added back the resulting liquid from the bowl.

I then put the heater on again to raise temperature for the boil and emptied my first run off wort back to the boiler from the stockpot.

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Okay thats great

Up until now I did BIAB on the stove in a 16ltr pot throwing towels and what not over the pot to try and maintain that temp.

This does seem to have a nice thick wall on it... Probably throw a coat over the lid. Maintaining mash temps can be tricky anyway.. Ever done a mash where the temp was 65 you stirred it and it shot up to 69?

I think you could if you wanted switch the element back on (part the of reason its concealed is to help protect the bag) as long as you stir the bag while it is heating up..

I just need to grain now!! although my £3 for 2 5 gallon paint strainers are taking a while to come!! anxious to get going again its been nearly 2 months since my last brew (which was my AG HBC kit)

Looking forward to hearing how you get on. I doubt you'll regret buying that boiler.

One more thing - and this may have been because I ground my own grain a bit too fine, but when I was draining off my first runnings, the filter blocked up with floury stuff. Like I said, I did grind it too fine, so this may not happen to you. The fine stuff gets out of the bag - my bag has a more open mesh on the bottom than the sides and allows powdery stuff out.

The problem was easy to deal with, I just reached into the boiler / mash tun with a long spoon and gently scraped the hop filter which soon restored flow. I had to do this twice for my too finely ground grains.

After the boil, I had no trouble at all in draining the boiled wort. The whole 22 litres came out easily through the hop debris and the filter. I had boiled off a bit more than I intended - hence I was a litre short of my desired volume.

I suspect that the wirfloc coagulated stray bits so they didn't block the filter, probably forming larger particles around which the liquor flows and passes through.

Tony1951 said:

Looking forward to hearing how you get on. I doubt you'll regret buying that boiler.

One more thing - and this may have been because I ground my own grain a bit too fine, but when I was draining off my first runnings, the filter blocked up with floury stuff. Like I said, I did grind it too fine, so this may not happen to you. The fine stuff gets out of the bag - my bag has a more open mesh on the bottom than the sides and allows powdery stuff out.

The problem was easy to deal with, I just reached into the boiler / mash tun with a long spoon and gently scraped the hop filter which soon restored flow. I had to do this twice for my too finely ground grains.

After the boil, I had no trouble at all in draining the boiled wort. The whole 22 litres came out easily through the hop debris and the filter. I had boiled off a bit more than I intended - hence I was a litre short of my desired volume.

I suspect that the wirfloc coagulated stray bits so they didn't block the filter, probably forming larger particles around which the liquor flows and passes through.

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To be honest mate I think these are problems no matter how you do AG.. I have been crouched over a FV crushing the hops through a fine mesh sieve with the back of a jug which I am scooping out of the pot which is cooling in the sink.. using the spoon to brush off the filter to help the flow seems a lot less of a pain.

Like you I too have a mill so will crush the grain finer.. it helped me sort my efficiency out. Just got to work out things like water quantities and sparging ect..

With the foam near the boil over they say to get a spray bottle too of water to help keep it down.

Covrich said:

With the foam near the boil over they say to get a spray bottle too of water to help keep it down.

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I tried that and it didn't have as much effect as just blowing on it. However, I actually switched off the power to the element three times for a few seconds. Once near the beginning of the boil when there was a foamy rising, then again at about 45 minutes and again when the wirfloc went in. The wirfloc / moss type stuff increases the viscosity of the wort slightly as it then captures the protein particles, coagulates and sinks them down and falls out. That's a hunch; maybe someone who knows will chip in, but at that moment the previously non-foamy wort just frothed right up. I killed the power for about ten seconds and it behaved itself properly right to the end. You do need to watch it though if you are near the full mark or you WILL end up with sticky wort climbing over the top. The boil is very strong.

My wife just bought me one and I did my first all grain brew. It's spot on. No probs other than not getting a rolling boil. But I think I can perfect that next time around by keeping temp at 110.

faustino123 said:

My wife just bought me one and I did my first all grain brew. It's spot on. No probs other than not getting a rolling boil. But I think I can perfect that next time around by keeping temp at 110.

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Congratulations! Glad it is working well. I felt pretty bad for Covrich when his let him down.

You will need to turn up the thermostat if it is cutting out at 100C. I think the specs say the thermostat has an accuracy of + or- 5C. I've done four brews in mine and last time, it cut off for 30 seconds even set at 110.... Don't know what that was about, but I just worked the knob back and forth a couple of times and it didn't happen again. I don't know what sort of potentiometer it is on the front under the knob, or if it is one, but if it is, they often start behaving better if you do that. Anyway, no harm done. Really loving it and hoping it stays that way.

Edit:

Just looked back and spotted the remarks about the hop filter betting clogged last time I used it. I now think that happened because I stirred the pot about half way through the draining process. It had all been flowing well until I did that and I probably stirred up the trub. This Tuesday gone, I made a wheat beer and given the claggyness of wheat I was expecting trouble. Not a bit of it. I just opened the tap and the whole boiler drained beautifully right to the end. Then I tilted it forward and got out the rest - no problem. I do no cool, so the wort stands in there a good while and settles out.

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] I sent off an E-mail yesterday to 'ACE'[/FONT][FONT=&quot] relaying comments i've seen on various home brew forums about the ACE mash tun boiler's tendancy to cut out for a short time during the boil period. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]This morning I received a reply from Ian at ACE[/FONT][FONT=&quot] which I hope will be of interest.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have to say i'm well impressed by their speedy and comprehensive response...excellent![/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]'There are 2 thermal cut outs in the machine (1 automatically resetting, 1 thermal fuse) and also the thermostat on the front[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The 110oC thermostat will cut out if gets above 110oC, as it is not in the water it may be the case that the machines underside could reach above this temperature as the heat will gradually get hotter the longer the machine is on and this will make the machine cut out, that could be moved away slightly from the base or a higher front thermostat above 110oc fitted[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It could also be a thermostat that should be 110oc is calibrated slightly under the 110oC as this part can have a + or – 5oC tolerance so maybe set at actually 105oc and the heating from the element is conducting heat from the element to the capillary tube on the thermostat though the metal on the base of the machine[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yes it is true the lower thermal cut out is there to save the wiring and element from burning out if boiling for long periods of time and you may have solved this by what you have said. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] I will ask the manufacture to either place this thermal cut out in a different position or higher the cut out temperature of this part[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The higher thermal fuse will blow if goes above 192oc and this should not be tampered with as this is a last resort for the machine if the element gets out of control.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I will be in contact with the supplier to improve the machines so that they will be able to hold a rolling boiler for up to 2 hours'[/FONT]

Interesting stuff there.

I've done nine brews in mine, one of them a short brew of ten litres, the rest 23 litre finished brew length, though I didn't usually get that much by the end. The boils were usually about 65 minutes and very vigorous.

I only had the cut out issue once and I cured it during the boil by running the temperature control knob back and forth a few times (running it end to end about six times - up and down). It never recurred and has behaved impeccably.

I would have thought that if the problem was caused by the position of the thermostat it would persist and not go away as mine did. I wondered if the control knob is connected to a potentiometer controlling some electronic circuit inside. This is guesswork. I haven't taken off any covers to look inside.I do know that if it is a potentiometer, they can get dirty carbon tracks which benefit from having the knob whizzed back and forth a few times. If it is a straightforward thermostat, then the current paragraph is rubbish.... Can't think though why my problem would vanish mid boil by just whipping the knob back and forth unless it was something like I suspect here.

Hi Tony,
I'm glad you sorted out your cut out issue.

Ian at ACE has e-mailed me to say that they are developing their mash tun/boiler so it provides accurate temperature control (hold at temps between 50 to 75oc) and has the ability to hold a rolling boil for 2 hours.

They are also planning on introducing 2 elements (900 and 1600 watt) to improve temperature control, so the user can choose 900-1600-2500 watt power settings.
They also intend to supply a grain bag too.:razz:
I suspect it is likely to be early new year before these new boilers come to market, so i'll be hanging on to my hard earned until then.

hotstuff said:

Hi Tony,
I'm glad you sorted out your cut out issue.

Ian at ACE has e-mailed me to say that they are developing their mash tun/boiler so it provides accurate temperature control (hold at temps between 50 to 75oc) and has the ability to hold a rolling boil for 2 hours.

They are also planning on introducing 2 elements (900 and 1600 watt) to improve temperature control, so the user can choose 900-1600-2500 watt power settings.
They also intend to supply a grain bag too.:razz:
I suspect it is likely to be early new year before these new boilers come to market, so i'll be hanging on to my hard earned until then.

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This sounds good - I've had mine for a year now and I set the boil so that it cuts off and on all the time as the boil is way beyond a `rolling boil'. have to say, doing what I'm doing, the beer comes out absolutely fine - but I would really like to be able to turn the current to the element down so I could get a reasonably gentle boil.

I'm guessing that a 900 watt element that cut in once the boil was established would be plenty to maintain a rolling boil. The continuous 2600 watt heater does as CWRW666 says produce an excessive boil. I lose a fair bit of liquid as steam, but have adapted my sparge process to allow me to continually top up with thinnish wort from a second sparge which I keep boiling quietly on the kitchen stove and transfer to the ACE boiler as needed. This way, all the wort has been boiled for long enough.

So I am doing an hour long mash with 15 litres, then an ten litre sparge followed by a three or four litre or so final sparge to make my top up liquor (this last bit is boiled on the kitchen stove). This process gives me about 23 - 24 litres into the FV including trub. If any of the thin final wort is left over I have used it for things like bringing on yeast cultures.

I wonder if the new supply is why some of the listings for the current boilers seem to have gone up to about £1000 on ebay recently.

meryvn said:

I wonder if the new supply is why some of the listings for the current boilers seem to have gone up to about �£1000 on ebay recently.

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The new boilers won't be available until next year.b ut you're right the E-bay price has suddenly rocketed though I strongly suspect the price is an error as the mash tun boilers are generally around £100.00 - £120.00

like I said in another thread im thinking along the lines of getting one of these,just a bit worried about the max liquer to a 5kilo grain bill displacement.is it ok for a 16litre liquor and 5 kilo grain bill for the mash,new to AG BIAB and want to make sure

Godsdog said:

like I said in another thread im thinking along the lines of getting one of these,just a bit worried about the max liquer to a 5kilo grain bill displacement.is it ok for a 16litre liquor and 5 kilo grain bill for the mash,new to AG BIAB and want to make sure

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I can't imagine there could be any problem in mashing that much. I just did a 6kg grain bill in mine with 15l. My only gripe is that I often find the thing won't drain because the hop screen is blocked by trub. It doesn't always happen though. It seems to depend on how much trub from the grain is loose in the wort. I am bag brewing and doing two sparges so I am trying to squeeze the max out of my grain. This may be the problem. The beer (now that I have a chiller) is excellent, but I get a lot of trub.

I know that Covrich had a boiler that shut down his electricity unit, and one or two have been cutting out during the boil for a minute, but mine is great. I love it. Only had one thermostat shut down and cured it by wizzing the thermostat control nob back and forth. It came straight back on and I've had three faultless boils since.

Tony1951 said:

I can't imagine there could be any problem in mashing that much. I just did a 6kg grain bill in mine with 15l. My only gripe is that I often find the thing won't drain because the hop screen is blocked by trub. It doesn't always happen though. It seems to depend on how much trub from the grain is loose in the wort. I am bag brewing and doing two sparges so I am trying to squeeze the max out of my grain. This may be the problem. The beer (now that I have a chiller) is excellent, but I get a lot of trub.

I know that Covrich had a boiler that shut down his electricity unit, and one or two have been cutting out during the boil for a minute, but mine is great. I love it. Only had one thermostat shut down and cured it by wizzing the thermostat control nob back and forth. It came straight back on and I've had three faultless boils since.

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Hi Tony,thanks for your reply,can I ask you how you go about your sparging,do you use a picnic box arrangement or drip drain,do you mash out do you use mash temp water? Like I said I'm new to this and want to go this way with an ace
Thanks tony