What system for first time brewer

MA71 · Nov 12, 2024

Hello all,
After a few attempts at Cider success I’m looking to get into brewing some beers, specifically lagers and classic IPA’s.
I have been considering an all in one system like the Brewzilla 4.1 as step up from my plastic buckets that have been good for low temp and slow ferment ciders, but suspect I need something more temperature controllable for Lagers and beers, all advice and suggestions welcome, budget is about £350-400

MashBag · Nov 12, 2024

Do you want to stand in front of it? If so go for it.

All beer machines are not the same. For similar money you could get a preloved braumeister.
Different bit of kit completely.

Larse · Nov 12, 2024

If you're on a budget and want to do all grain brewing, something like the Klarstein Maischfest would be suitable. The temperature control is quite coarse, so I'd recommend just getting your strike water temperature correct, add the grains and then insulate, leaving the heating elements off until absolutely necessary if the temp slips a bit. Generally will be fine for a 60 minute mash.

Has all the basics you need; malt pipe, sparge lid and obviously the temp controller can be used for the boil.

MA71 · Nov 12, 2024

MashBag said:
Do you want to stand in front of it? If so go for it.

All beer machines are not the same. For similar money you could get a preloved braumeister.
Different bit of kit completely.

Thanks
Will check these out, and keep an eye on eBay to see if one comes up close to me as they seem to be collection only, looks like a decent bit of kit though.

MA71 · Nov 12, 2024

Larse said:
If you're on a budget and want to do all grain brewing, something like the Klarstein Maischfest would be suitable. The temperature control is quite coarse, so I'd recommend just getting your strike water temperature correct, add the grains and then insulate, leaving the heating elements off until absolutely necessary if the temp slips a bit. Generally will be fine for a 60 minute mash.

Has all the basics you need; malt pipe, sparge lid and obviously the temp controller can be used for the boil

I had a look on their website and it looks pretty tidy, I am keen though to see if the Brewzilla rapt system adds to the simplicity though with the ability of monitoring and controlling fermentation temps remotely etc, or would you not bother with that functionality and just use something else?

Rwilts · Nov 12, 2024

Not sure if your confusing things @Mark Arthur , but you mention plastic buckets and temp control and then an AIO brewing system , which will be good and produce good wort but temp control of fermentation will give you a better bang for buck outcome (in my opinion) so. depending on what you already have you could go gas burner 50L pot for BIAB and spend the money on a temp control fermenter ( there are a few SS with built in heating, which would rely on ambiant temp to cooling).

OR

you could go big bang and do both - I have a brewzilla 3.1.1 and love it so I am not dissing AIO systems , just be aware of what they are desinge to do and what makes the biggest impact on your final product.
What i am trying to say is AIO are not for fermenting.

Northern_Brewer · Nov 12, 2024

Mark Arthur said:
I’m looking to get into brewing some beers, specifically lagers and classic IPA’s.
I have been considering an all in one system like the Brewzilla 4.1 as step up from my plastic buckets that have been good for low temp and slow ferment ciders, but suspect I need something more temperature controllable for Lagers and beers, all advice and suggestions welcome, budget is about £350-400

You can make perfectly good wort with plastic buckets and a Burco boiler, some insulation and a thermometer, the all-in-ones are more about convenience as much as anything else.

[this point was made whilst I was typing] Controlling fermentation temp can give a better bang for your buck, and only needs an old fridge off Freecycle, an Inkbird thermostat (preferably one of the Wifi ones like the ITC-308-WIFI) and a basic source of heat like a greenhouse heater.

But then again, don't overestimate how complicated it needs to be - I manage to stick to a pretty steady 18C in a cupboard in my spareroom with the help of an Inkbird and an old fan heater for 9-10 months of the year, I don't drink so much beer that I need to ferment at the hottest times of year (and could use warm-adapted yeasts like kveik and saison if I really needed to). Also don't overestimate how cold lager yeasts need to be, many work pretty well at ale temperatures, notably 34/70.

It's also worth noting that this kind of hardware like all-in-ones, Inkbirds and nice thermometers like the Thermopen, all tend to get useful discounts over the Black "Friday" period, which in theory is 30 November this year as Thanksgiving is late, but in practice seems to run for several weeks now...

Larse · Nov 12, 2024

Others seem to have answered your question, so I'm just going to break it down a bit.

All in one (AIO) systems (like Brewzilla etc.) are mainly geared towards making a fermentable wort from grains. This can also be done in a plastic bucket or cooler box with brew in a bag (BIAB) and insulation to keep the mash temperature stable. Just start with the right temperature strike water add your grains, stir in and leave for the required time.

Fermentation can also be done in these AIO systems. In practice it's not a great idea if you need to use your AIO system to make another brew and it's tied up with a fermenting one.

So you need a frementer which can be as cheap as you want (basic plastic) to wildly expensive (stainless conical with lots of gubbins). Keeping a stable temperature can be done with a heat mat and inkbird or similar temperature probe. The difficulty comes with trying to keep a low temperature for lagers - usually in the 12° to 18° range, but often at the lower end of that. There are various options for this, but they can be expensive. An option to avoid this is to have a pressure fermenter instead.

MashBag · Nov 12, 2024

Mark Arthur said:
Brewzilla rapt system adds to the simplicity

Simplicity is on of my trigger words.

as are Rapt / tilt / Bluetooth / Internet connected etc are.

Some do, some don't. I am a great believer in beer does not need that tech, if you do, that's something you need to rule in or out quite early.

It was all so much easier when the world was flatter

Rwilts · Nov 12, 2024

MashBag said:
Simplicity is on of my trigger words. as are Rapt / tilt / Bluetooth / Internet connected etc are.

Some do, some don't. I am a great believer in beer does not need that tech, if you do, that's something you need to rule in or out quite early.

It was all so much easier when the world was flatter

What do you mean 'was'?

MashBag · Nov 12, 2024

Larse said:
In practice it's not a great idea if you need to use your AIO system to make another brew and it's tied up with a fermenting one.

I depends on how much you make, or drink. I ferment in mash kettle (might have beyond it) and it's out of the AIO day 7.

2+2+2 is sooo yesterday.

If you are making lager, I can understand you wanting the fermenter in a chilled environment (that said an English summer would do it

)

Larse · Nov 12, 2024

MashBag said:
I depends on how much you make, or drink. I ferment in mash kettle (might have beyond it) and it's out of the AIO day 7.

2+2+2 is sooo yesterday.

If you are making lager, I can understand you wanting the fermenter in a chilled environment (that said an English summer would do it )

Not all fermentations take 7 days. some less, some more.

Giving the op all the information needed to make an informed decision.

MA71 · Nov 13, 2024

Thanks for all the commentary, as I am looking at smaller quantities and more lager than ipa then looks like the options are to have better control of the fermentation temperature.
Will let you know how it goes

Davegase · Nov 13, 2024

MA71 said:
Hello all,
After a few attempts at Cider success I’m looking to get into brewing some beers, specifically lagers and classic IPA’s.
I have been considering an all in one system like the Brewzilla 4.1 as step up from my plastic buckets that have been good for low temp and slow ferment ciders, but suspect I need something more temperature controllable for Lagers and beers, all advice and suggestions welcome, budget is about £350-400

To stay within your budget £350 to £400 and include temperature controlled fermentation, the Brewzilla won't get you there . I have and I'm very happy with the Brewilla gen 4. But it's a machine for making the wort.
For temperature controlled fermentation including fermenting lagers you'll need a fridge and a controller.
The control of could be something simple like the inkbird or more elaborate like the Rapt controller.
When I started all grain brewing I used a Burco and an insulated mash tun with excellent results.

Footnote: If you have a wife, don't try boiling five gallons of wort in your kitchen.

Northern_Brewer · Nov 13, 2024

Davegase said:
Footnote: If you have a wife, don't try boiling five gallons of wort in your kitchen.

It's fine, just add a fragment of a simet(h)icone-based anti-flatulence pill to prevent boilovers...

Omega · Nov 13, 2024

I would use brew kits as it is simpler, less time, less cleaning, great results. And maybe even cheaper. I still brew with kits, I like the taste and less hassle
Pressure fermenter would do a job, transparent plastic can be found for under £100 new (snub nose are the best), eBay will sell for even less
For temperature control, use Freegle to source a free fridge, then buy RAPT Pill, temperature controller and a bulb to heat up fridge inside
To make life even simpler, you will need KegLand Bucket Blaster (it costs £28 from China, though £35 shipping plus extra for customs etc, I bought it locally in the UK), kegs, CO2 and other small items. I would think you can buy it all under £400

Frisp · Thursday at 6:58 AM

As an alternative. To kits and AG ( for a while) and
For smaller batches of say 1 or 2 gallons why dint you look at doing a few extract brews before diving into AG All you need is a cheap stock pot to boil your wort ( extract and water).and hops A home made or bought immersion chiller (or you can go no chill clingfilm the pot to keep nasties out and let it cool overnight)
Syphon off into your plastic buckets when chilled and ferment the same way as you did your ciders

I have a BZg4 and my go to “ house lager” is extra light Dry malt extract (DME) Saaz hops 1/2 a protofloc and novalager yeast. Fast dirty and flippin tasty.

The 15l pot i bought to do small batches with is now my sparge water pot for the BZ when im doing AG so the cost of the pot wasnt dead money when i bought the BZ

A cheap 20l stockpot off fleabay is about £40 and im sure there will be someone on here selling a spare immersion chiller ( put an ad up on the classified section).

Doing extract for a few brews would allow you to master the boil, chill, ferment and packaging of brewing before you progress to mastering water profiles grainbills, mashing PH and sparging.

Dark Arts · Thursday at 8:58 AM

Northern_Brewer said:
It's fine, just add a fragment of a simet(h)icone-based anti-flatulence pill to prevent boilovers...

How do you get her to take this tho?

What system for first time brewer

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